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I grew up in a house built in the 1890s (with residual pipes for gas lighting because electricity hadn't been "invented" yet). It was designed to be with-in wal

I grew up in a house built in the 1890s (with residual pipes for gas lighting because electricity hadn't been "invented" yet). It was designed to be with-in walking distance of retail and streetcars/trams/trolleys, because the car had not been invented yet. Grid layout pre-dates the automobile: * http://oldtorontomaps.blogspot.com/p/index-of-maps.html http://oldtorontomaps.blogspot.com/p/index-of-maps.html There's nothing "natural" about car-centric design and giving priority to cars: * https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262516129/fighting-traffic/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262516129/fighting-traffic/ It's a policy choice, one which (e.g.) the Dutch started moving away from in the late 1970s: * https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bic... * https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in-the-1970s-what-changed/ https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in... Jane Jacobs wrote The Death and Life of Great American Cities in 1961: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_American_Cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_Am... The book Crabgrass Frontier was published in 1985: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass_Frontier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabgrass_Frontier The Geography of Nowhere was published in 1993: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere We've know for decades about the consequences of sprawl.

JAlexoid 4y ago
Not to mention that many places in US actively oppose or outright ban mixed use developments. (commercial lower levels, with residential on top)
chrisco255 4y ago
Well I've been in many pre 1890s buildings and houses that were never anywhere near a streetcar or even railroad, because they were not located anywhere near a dense urban area. The United States is a vast swath of highly arable land. Far more of it is amenable in terms of climate than Canada. And huge swaths of this country were sparsely inhabitated, broken up into these large rural parcels as I described. People moved to the United States throughout the 1800s specifically to obtain land. > There's nothing "natural" about car-centric design and giving priority to cars Look at the video footage of San Fran in 1906 I posted. It is just about as perfect of a model as you could find. It was a premier city at the time. It had cable car infrastructure across the city that survives to this day. However, even in this footage people are foregoing the cable car for the automobile. More people are jetting around in their car, far before any real infrastructure even existed specifically for the car. It was a consumer choice. People like to think it was some kind of conspiracy that streetcars and railroads fell out of favor for cars. No, cars replaced horses and horse carriages, which were flexible in path movement, did not depend on central operators, asynchronous in that they could be deployed any time, and also like horses, cars were owned. Independence, ownership, empowerment, etc. Huge American cultural values in part shaped by the sheer geography of the U.S. For the United States, based on its geography and culture, absolutely inevitable that independent and self owned forms of transportation would dominate. Sprawl, in a sprawling country, is inevitable.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > Sprawl, in a sprawling country, is inevitable. The communities listed in this page were suburbs, just not car-centric suburbs: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb Development could have continued to be denser communities around either tram lines, rail stations, or existing towns. LA's 'sprawl' started around the trolley system: * https://la.curbed.com/2017/9/20/16340038/los-angeles-streetcar-conspiracy-theory-general-motors https://la.curbed.com/2017/9/20/16340038/los-angeles-streetc... * https://www.jstor.org/stable/26412661 https://www.jstor.org/stable/26412661 Some of the original bedroom communities were based around rail stations. But those communities still had 'urban-ish' communities that one walked around, and long distance travel was rail, or horse, later car. And I know well communities not around any dense urban area, as I visited my grandparents' farm in Communist Europe numerous times when I was young: my aunts/uncles had cars back in the Old Country, but my grand parents still used horses for a lot of work and even going into town. A random farm, in a rural area, in a sprawling country is not the same planned development on a parcel of land, which required government approval and permits. Low-density development, cul-de-sacs, restrictive zoning where residential is not with-in waling distance of commercial/industrial were all policy choices. There was nothing inevitable about it. Certainly in the 1940s and 50s maybe folks didn't know any better, but that's harder to say by the 1970s and 80s. (Parenthetically, originally people used to live in towns and commute to their farms: living right on the farm was a later development (relatively speaking).)

JAlexoid 4y ago

Not to mention that many places in US actively oppose or outright ban mixed use developments. (commercial lower levels, with residential on top)

chrisco255 4y ago

Well I've been in many pre 1890s buildings and houses that were never anywhere near a streetcar or even railroad, because they were not located anywhere near a dense urban area. The United States is a vast swath of highly arable land. Far more of it is amenable in terms of climate than Canada. And huge swaths of this country were sparsely inhabitated, broken up into these large rural parcels as I described. People moved to the United States throughout the 1800s specifically to obtain land. > There's nothing "natural" about car-centric design and giving priority to cars Look at the video footage of San Fran in 1906 I posted. It is just about as perfect of a model as you could find. It was a premier city at the time. It had cable car infrastructure across the city that survives to this day. However, even in this footage people are foregoing the cable car for the automobile. More people are jetting around in their car, far before any real infrastructure even existed specifically for the car. It was a consumer choice. People like to think it was some kind of conspiracy that streetcars and railroads fell out of favor for cars. No, cars replaced horses and horse carriages, which were flexible in path movement, did not depend on central operators, asynchronous in that they could be deployed any time, and also like horses, cars were owned. Independence, ownership, empowerment, etc. Huge American cultural values in part shaped by the sheer geography of the U.S. For the United States, based on its geography and culture, absolutely inevitable that independent and self owned forms of transportation would dominate. Sprawl, in a sprawling country, is inevitable.

throw0101a 4y ago
> Sprawl, in a sprawling country, is inevitable. The communities listed in this page were suburbs, just not car-centric suburbs: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb Development could have continued to be denser communities around either tram lines, rail stations, or existing towns. LA's 'sprawl' started around the trolley system: * https://la.curbed.com/2017/9/20/16340038/los-angeles-streetcar-conspiracy-theory-general-motors https://la.curbed.com/2017/9/20/16340038/los-angeles-streetc... * https://www.jstor.org/stable/26412661 https://www.jstor.org/stable/26412661 Some of the original bedroom communities were based around rail stations. But those communities still had 'urban-ish' communities that one walked around, and long distance travel was rail, or horse, later car. And I know well communities not around any dense urban area, as I visited my grandparents' farm in Communist Europe numerous times when I was young: my aunts/uncles had cars back in the Old Country, but my grand parents still used horses for a lot of work and even going into town. A random farm, in a rural area, in a sprawling country is not the same planned development on a parcel of land, which required government approval and permits. Low-density development, cul-de-sacs, restrictive zoning where residential is not with-in waling distance of commercial/industrial were all policy choices. There was nothing inevitable about it. Certainly in the 1940s and 50s maybe folks didn't know any better, but that's harder to say by the 1970s and 80s. (Parenthetically, originally people used to live in towns and commute to their farms: living right on the farm was a later development (relatively speaking).)