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The simple difference is humans have the biological goal to replicate their genes. That is the root source of intelligence. Software does not because it has not

The simple difference is humans have the biological goal to replicate their genes. That is the root source of intelligence. Software does not because it has not evolved. If you want real AI then start with simulating life in a simulated environment as complex as the real world for many thousands or millions of generations. Humans may be like robots but their programing is not statistical pattern matching or Boolean logic. Rather it is the intelligence selected for by evolution to achieve the goals of an individual organism. How does this not make sense? Intelligence does not just happen absent goal directed evolution.

fasterik 4y ago
How does this not make sense? As far as I can tell, your points don't apply to what I said. I'll quote myself: >The idea that machines couldn't do everything a human can do (and more) doesn't make any sense to me. In other words, it doesn't make sense to me when I hear impossibility arguments about AGI that appeal to something special about humans. I'm not making a claim about software and hardware in 2023. I'm saying in principle, there is nothing stopping us from building artificial systems that are just as complex and capable as evolved biological organisms, other than our lack of knowledge of how to build such systems. >Software does not because it has not evolved Software does evolve. To get evolution you need three things: replication, mutation, and selection pressure. We replicate, mutate, and select software all the time. I don't think you need a large scale simulation to get evolutionary dynamics. >Humans may be like robots but their programing is not statistical pattern matching or Boolean logic That might be true, but I'm also skeptical. Part of the problem is we don't really understand intelligence very well. If we really understood what makes humans capable of intelligent behavior, we would be able to replicate it in artificial systems. I don't see a fundamental barrier other than having the right algorithms.
- runarberg 4y ago
  You might be thinking about evolutionary learning (or more broadly evolutionary algorithms), which is a machine learning method different from—the more common and more successful—artificial neural networks. Several implementations actually exist, and I think some are even quite successful, but none that I’m aware of have been shown to have AGI capabilities.

fasterik 4y ago

How does this not make sense? As far as I can tell, your points don't apply to what I said. I'll quote myself: >The idea that machines couldn't do everything a human can do (and more) doesn't make any sense to me. In other words, it doesn't make sense to me when I hear impossibility arguments about AGI that appeal to something special about humans. I'm not making a claim about software and hardware in 2023. I'm saying in principle, there is nothing stopping us from building artificial systems that are just as complex and capable as evolved biological organisms, other than our lack of knowledge of how to build such systems. >Software does not because it has not evolved Software does evolve. To get evolution you need three things: replication, mutation, and selection pressure. We replicate, mutate, and select software all the time. I don't think you need a large scale simulation to get evolutionary dynamics. >Humans may be like robots but their programing is not statistical pattern matching or Boolean logic That might be true, but I'm also skeptical. Part of the problem is we don't really understand intelligence very well. If we really understood what makes humans capable of intelligent behavior, we would be able to replicate it in artificial systems. I don't see a fundamental barrier other than having the right algorithms.

runarberg 4y ago
You might be thinking about evolutionary learning (or more broadly evolutionary algorithms), which is a machine learning method different from—the more common and more successful—artificial neural networks. Several implementations actually exist, and I think some are even quite successful, but none that I’m aware of have been shown to have AGI capabilities.