5 ms·

I used stumbleupon in the 0s and that was primarily blogposts and writings. I don’t see why an algorithm couldn’t recreate the stumbleupon experience.

dereg 4y ago
I agree with you. While I love RSS and use it frequently, there are two things that I find that could be improved: 1. RSS doesn't help me find new interesting blogs and writers. One of TikTok's few virtues as a platform is giving algorithmic reach to creators who have no social reach. 2. My RSS collections have always been one of either I'm following a highly curated list that leaves me hungering for more content or I'm following a firehose that makes me miss the content I prefer. I stumbled across a website that does something like what the article describes, but for just tweets[0]. It's surprisingly compelling and gives me the feel of using StumbleUpon. I am eager to see more things like it. [0]: https://mood.surf https://mood.surf (no affiliation)
- lonk11 4y ago
  To help with discovery of new RSS feeds I use this mechanism for https://linklonk.com https://linklonk.com - when you upvote or submit a link, you connect (subscribe) to all users that upvoted and to all RSS feeds that posted that link. For example, if you submit this link: https://stratechery.com/2023/netflixs-new-chapter/ https://stratechery.com/2023/netflixs-new-chapter/ then you will get connected to two RSS feeds that posted that link: https://stratechery.com/feed/ https://stratechery.com/feed/ and https://hnrss.org/newest?points=100 https://hnrss.org/newest?points=100 (ie, the HN feed of items with >100 points) As you rate content you get connected to more and more sources. The way it solves the oversubscription problem is - whenever a user/feed posts something - your connection to them goes down slightly. As a result you see content from sources with the highest signal-to-noise ratio first. The differences from Artifact is: - Artifact uses implicit signals such as read time; LinkLonk uses your explicit upvotes. I think implicit signals are fine for entertainment content, but not for informational content. Time spent is not equal to becoming better informed. I think only you can be a judge of that. - Artifact uses an opaque AI algorithm optimized to do what they want; LinkLonk uses a transparent algorithm, where each recommendation comes from a feed or a user that you have co-liked items in common.
  - dereg 4y ago
    Neat, I'll give this a shot!
- adql 4y ago
  > My RSS collections have always been one of either I'm following a highly curated list that leaves me hungering for more content or I'm following a firehose that makes me miss the content I prefer. Filtering helps but "i just like some type of content from that person" seems to be forever problem on every site. Like on youtube, you watched whole three videos of a guy cooking ? I will bomb your feed with random crap from his channel for next month or two!
- paride5745 4y ago
  I use Feedly for my RSS feeds and Flipboard for discovering new content. But yeah, I miss the old Stumbleupon...
dan-robertson 4y ago
I don’t think TikTok innovated by merely having an algorithmic feed. Facebook, twitter, YouTube have algorithmic feeds. I think they innovated in giving users what they actually want in the algorithmic feed. My understanding is that TikTok is much better at acting on information from users (ie what they seem to like/dislike). I don’t know how much of figuring out what users want transfers from many short videos to text. For instance, dwell time seems an obvious metric but I find I ‘dwell’ longest on either things I find enjoyable or on things I find terribly boring. I hope it does transfer well – exposing people to more of the kind of writing they want seems generally good to me.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Algorithmic feeds have totally destroyed Facebook for me. And are now doing the same for Instagram (suggested posts). These are really the only social media I use. Facebook was pretty good when it just showed my friends on a timeline. When they switched to a feed it became a disaster and I had to leave it. I don't like user-generated video content so I rarely use YouTube and I've never touched TikTok. But I don't think algorithms really help. I really prefer the user selection here on hacker news.
- slg 4y ago
  >I think they innovated in giving users what they actually want in the algorithmic feed. People underestimate this. TikTok's algorithm makes the app enjoyable to use while most other algorithmic feeds make their respective service less enjoyable. I imagine that is because TikTok factors in other criteria beyond active engagement. At this point we all know it is easier to trigger active engagement through negative emotions. By simply prioritizing any engagement, algorithms like the ones used at Twitter and Facebook end up prioritizing content that delivers us those negative emotions in order to get us to engage. TikTok's algorithm also factors in passive engagement like the dwell time you mentioned. That ends up creating a more positive user experience because it actually learns what we like instead of just what makes us reply angrily.
  - godelski 4y ago
    I wonder if part of this is that TikTok is less focused on engaging with others and more focused on receiving content from others (I don't use TikTok...). When on platform communication happens it can be more personal as it is done through videos rather than text, where it doesn't seem like there's a person on the other side.
sinoue 4y ago
StumbleUpon https://www.stumbleupon.com/ https://www.stumbleupon.com/ was cool the way Yahoo bookmarks was cool. https://mashable.com/feature/yahoo-history https://mashable.com/feature/yahoo-history I miss the magic of an unwalled web that we seem to be lacking today.
alberto7 4y ago
Perhaps the magic of stumbleupon was the stuff you would stumble upon at that time.
8note 4y ago
I remember stumble upon mostly being cool web tech in action
RheingoldRiver 4y ago
I miss stumbleupon dearly. I suppose that was sort of the experience Tiktok gives people now; I had no control over what the next site would be, I just clicked a button and got something. My "feed" was largely dominated by nerdy webcomics and I loved it. Eventually, I found the quality was degrading and I switched to reddit in about 2010 or maybe 2011, though it was a while before I actually made an account there.

dereg 4y ago

I agree with you. While I love RSS and use it frequently, there are two things that I find that could be improved: 1. RSS doesn't help me find new interesting blogs and writers. One of TikTok's few virtues as a platform is giving algorithmic reach to creators who have no social reach. 2. My RSS collections have always been one of either I'm following a highly curated list that leaves me hungering for more content or I'm following a firehose that makes me miss the content I prefer. I stumbled across a website that does something like what the article describes, but for just tweets[0]. It's surprisingly compelling and gives me the feel of using StumbleUpon. I am eager to see more things like it. [0]: https://mood.surf https://mood.surf (no affiliation)

lonk11 4y ago
To help with discovery of new RSS feeds I use this mechanism for https://linklonk.com https://linklonk.com - when you upvote or submit a link, you connect (subscribe) to all users that upvoted and to all RSS feeds that posted that link. For example, if you submit this link: https://stratechery.com/2023/netflixs-new-chapter/ https://stratechery.com/2023/netflixs-new-chapter/ then you will get connected to two RSS feeds that posted that link: https://stratechery.com/feed/ https://stratechery.com/feed/ and https://hnrss.org/newest?points=100 https://hnrss.org/newest?points=100 (ie, the HN feed of items with >100 points) As you rate content you get connected to more and more sources. The way it solves the oversubscription problem is - whenever a user/feed posts something - your connection to them goes down slightly. As a result you see content from sources with the highest signal-to-noise ratio first. The differences from Artifact is: - Artifact uses implicit signals such as read time; LinkLonk uses your explicit upvotes. I think implicit signals are fine for entertainment content, but not for informational content. Time spent is not equal to becoming better informed. I think only you can be a judge of that. - Artifact uses an opaque AI algorithm optimized to do what they want; LinkLonk uses a transparent algorithm, where each recommendation comes from a feed or a user that you have co-liked items in common.
- dereg 4y ago
  Neat, I'll give this a shot!
adql 4y ago
> My RSS collections have always been one of either I'm following a highly curated list that leaves me hungering for more content or I'm following a firehose that makes me miss the content I prefer. Filtering helps but "i just like some type of content from that person" seems to be forever problem on every site. Like on youtube, you watched whole three videos of a guy cooking ? I will bomb your feed with random crap from his channel for next month or two!
paride5745 4y ago
I use Feedly for my RSS feeds and Flipboard for discovering new content. But yeah, I miss the old Stumbleupon...

dan-robertson 4y ago

I don’t think TikTok innovated by merely having an algorithmic feed. Facebook, twitter, YouTube have algorithmic feeds. I think they innovated in giving users what they actually want in the algorithmic feed. My understanding is that TikTok is much better at acting on information from users (ie what they seem to like/dislike). I don’t know how much of figuring out what users want transfers from many short videos to text. For instance, dwell time seems an obvious metric but I find I ‘dwell’ longest on either things I find enjoyable or on things I find terribly boring. I hope it does transfer well – exposing people to more of the kind of writing they want seems generally good to me.

wkat4242 4y ago
Algorithmic feeds have totally destroyed Facebook for me. And are now doing the same for Instagram (suggested posts). These are really the only social media I use. Facebook was pretty good when it just showed my friends on a timeline. When they switched to a feed it became a disaster and I had to leave it. I don't like user-generated video content so I rarely use YouTube and I've never touched TikTok. But I don't think algorithms really help. I really prefer the user selection here on hacker news.
slg 4y ago
>I think they innovated in giving users what they actually want in the algorithmic feed. People underestimate this. TikTok's algorithm makes the app enjoyable to use while most other algorithmic feeds make their respective service less enjoyable. I imagine that is because TikTok factors in other criteria beyond active engagement. At this point we all know it is easier to trigger active engagement through negative emotions. By simply prioritizing any engagement, algorithms like the ones used at Twitter and Facebook end up prioritizing content that delivers us those negative emotions in order to get us to engage. TikTok's algorithm also factors in passive engagement like the dwell time you mentioned. That ends up creating a more positive user experience because it actually learns what we like instead of just what makes us reply angrily.
- godelski 4y ago
  I wonder if part of this is that TikTok is less focused on engaging with others and more focused on receiving content from others (I don't use TikTok...). When on platform communication happens it can be more personal as it is done through videos rather than text, where it doesn't seem like there's a person on the other side.

sinoue 4y ago

StumbleUpon https://www.stumbleupon.com/ https://www.stumbleupon.com/ was cool the way Yahoo bookmarks was cool. https://mashable.com/feature/yahoo-history https://mashable.com/feature/yahoo-history I miss the magic of an unwalled web that we seem to be lacking today.

alberto7 4y ago

Perhaps the magic of stumbleupon was the stuff you would stumble upon at that time.

8note 4y ago

I remember stumble upon mostly being cool web tech in action

RheingoldRiver 4y ago

I miss stumbleupon dearly. I suppose that was sort of the experience Tiktok gives people now; I had no control over what the next site would be, I just clicked a button and got something. My "feed" was largely dominated by nerdy webcomics and I loved it. Eventually, I found the quality was degrading and I switched to reddit in about 2010 or maybe 2011, though it was a while before I actually made an account there.