7 ms·

The BBC World Service shortwave broadcast [0] is still one of the few (safe) ways people can get outside news while living in war-torn regions and totalitarian

The BBC World Service shortwave broadcast [0] is still one of the few (safe) ways people can get outside news while living in war-torn regions and totalitarian regimes across Africa, Middle east, and Asia. People arguing about Audio quality are missing the point of AM: Robustness in adversity. Receivers are easy to put together and repair, transmission travels long distances beyond enemies/oppressors and unlike online access nobody can intercept your traffic or estimate your location. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2x9tqt6mc05vB2S37j8MWMJ/global-short-wave-frequencies https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2x9tqt6mc05vB2S37j...

sn_master 4y ago
BBC Arabic was just discontinued last week. FTA: The move came as part of cost-cutting measures under which the news service is also ending its radio programming in 10 other languages, including Persian, Chinese and Hindi. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/business/media/bbc-arabic-radio-end.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/business/media/bbc-arabic...
- glaucon 4y ago
  Having discontinued most of the over the air broadcasts to Eastern Europe they turned them back on pretty quickly starting in February last year - I've no doubt that once Ukraine is finished the Foreign Office will be nagging to withdraw the funding again. So stupid, it's a lot of soft power for peanuts. Probably the suits are saying "but what about the internet" but the people you want to reach are the people whose internet is likely to be turned off when you want to talk to them.
  - jhoechtl 4y ago
    You might have missed that Broadcast onto Ukrain territory / Central and eastern Europe in general has been turned off again.
- aeontech 4y ago
  That's tragic and shortsighted... for whatever faults BBC coverage might have, those 39M listeners it was reaching will now no longer have these alternate perspectives easily available to them relative to the other media in their countries. Less information is always a loss. And even if we ignore any altruistic motivations, it's a loss of soft power for the British / Western operations.
  - irjustin 4y ago
    > That's tragic and shortsighted Tragic absolutely, shortsighted - no. You can't operate without money and news organizations can't survive in todays environment. The way we consume and gather around information simply isn't the same anymore.
    - ruined 4y ago
      it's the bbc, they are state funded.
      - sn_master 4y ago
        They were funded by a separate tax that everyone had to pay which got discontinued recently.
        Quarrelsome 4y ago
        The TV license is still in effect and not everyone has to pay it. [1] How on earth have you obtained such obvious misinformation and why are you posting it so confidently? [1] https://www.gov.uk/tv-licence https://www.gov.uk/tv-licence
        midasuni 4y ago
        World service was funded separately from general taxation until a few years ago.
- Quarrelsome 4y ago
  It's an absolute disgrace and I hope everyone who is represented by an MP is writing to them to protest. Its bad enough to Brexit but to willingly give up soft power to save a tiny sliver of budget is shocking. Whoever figured "well its on the internet" appears to have forgotten that its purpose is to serve people under the sorts of governments that would aggressively block internet access to news sources unfriendly to the government.
- mmmuhd 4y ago
  On another note BBC Hausa service is facing mass resignation due to the newly opened TRT Hausa service (Turkey) promising the staff the BBC staff freedom to report positive News about Africa, unlike the BBC that only wants them to report negative and News about war and underdevelopment.
cannonpr 4y ago
Not to be pedantic, receiving is actually traceable to a motivated enough agent with sufficiently expensive equipment, especially if your receiver is home made or poorly built, due to oscillator leak back, there are a few other effects that can be used such as shadow casting. This gives a light idea of what’s possible: https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/2160/is-there-a-way-to-find-out-the-location-where-a-radio-signal-is-intercepted https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/2160/is-there-a-way-... I simply mention this because in some regimes and some situations, it’s best to understand what’s possible.
- glaucon 4y ago
  I'm sure you're right that a "motivated enough agent" might trace a receiver but the two replies in the ham.stackexchange.com answer seem pretty clear that it's very difficult to do in the real world. I appreciate technology may have changed but in the cold war many East Germans listened to the BBC East German service, in particular a programme called "Letters Without Signatures" [0] which relied on East Germans writing letters to the BBC . The programme ran for many years and clearly had a significant audience, I think if the Stasi had been able to detect reception they would have done so. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbchistoryresearch/entries/9a65132d-59c9-4937-a1d9-3df77242651e https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbchistoryresearch/entries/9a651...
- zbrozek 4y ago
  Odds of being tracked down that way are near-nil given that your oscillator could for anything. Also you can build a crummy AM receiver without one: https://www.buildcircuit.com/how-to-make-a-batteryless-crystal-set-radio/ https://www.buildcircuit.com/how-to-make-a-batteryless-cryst...
  - smackeyacky 4y ago
    I had a "bionic man" doll when I was a kid that had a crystal radio built into his back (although on reflection it might have been the 3 faced robot guy). Seemed like magic at the time, got me into simple electronics.
- JasonFruit 4y ago
int_19h 4y ago
"AM" in radio context generally means medium wave, not shortwave.
- riceart 4y ago
  AM in radio context means amplitude modulation - it’s the modulation, has nothing to do with the band. In common everyday layperson context it means all of medium-wave terrestrial broadcast. But even commercial pilots know their radios are AM for instance.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    I meant specifically the phrase "AM radio" - a product advertised as such will usually not be capable of receiving shortwave, unless that is specifically mentioned. People who know what AM actually means tend to use words like "transceiver" anyway, not "radio".
    - 112233 4y ago
      Is this an US thing? Because over here in 80s radios had "long wave", "medium wave", "short wave" (1..6) and "ultra short wave", the later being called "FM" in export models. I do not recall bands being reffered to as "AM". Does it include LW/MW only, or is shortwave also called "AM radio"?
      - jdofaz 4y ago
        A common radio will have an AM band 530 kHz to 1700 kHz and a FM band 88 to 108 MHz. You'd have to buy a special radio to get more options.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        If you look up "AM/FM radio" on Amazon, you'll see plenty of examples. It does not include shortwave, unless specifically labelled "AM/FM/SW". Whether LW is included or not varies, probably because LW isn't used for broadcasting in US. I don't think it's just a US or NA thing. In my experience, at least, every casual consumer radio I ever handled that had English labels on it, outside of vintage stuff, used this terminology. More advanced consumer radios like Tecsun will usually avoid "AM" and use LW/MW/SW as appropriate, but then still refer to VHF as FM.
willis936 4y ago
Honestly FM receivers are not much more complicated than AM receivers and are much better. A full superheterodyne is not necessary if you really are in a survivalist scenario. A single transistor is the only non-linear component. https://www.circuitbasics.com/what-are-fm-receivers/ https://www.circuitbasics.com/what-are-fm-receivers/
- systems_glitch 4y ago
  Yeah but propagation.
- LanceH 4y ago
  FM is far more restricted by line of sight. AM is not dead between cities in Texas, if you're into Country, Tejano, or church broadcasts.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    The modulation, AM vs FM isn't necessarily the big determine factor on distance. AM can general travel farther on less power, but its more about the frequency choice. FM radio stations usually operate in the VHF/UHF band, which regardless of the modulation technique, it much more likely to be line of site. AM radio stations tend to operate on HF. HF frequencies have a higher change to do bounces. Its more about characteristics of the frequency being used in this case. Under the right conditions, the 6m band, even with FM, can experience "sporadic E" and you can talk quiet far on it.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  FM does not transmit to thousands of kilometers...
  - dheera 4y ago
    Only because of the frequencies typically used, not because it's FM
    - 4y ago
fomine3 4y ago
Just curious why they hopping frequency
- giantrobot 4y ago
  Shortwave propagates differently during the day and at night. Its propagation is mainly due to bounding off layers of the ionosphere. Different layers absorb and reflect different frequencies. During the day (relative to the broadcaster) frequencies above 12MHz propagate farther than lower frequencies. At night this effect is reversed.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
insane_dreamer 4y ago
Doesn't BBC WS broadcast over shortwave, not AM? I used to listen to it in many different countries (though no longer because ... Internet).
- mvexel 4y ago
  They used to have an AM transmitter that reached most? of Europe, but it was shut down in 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orfordness_transmitting_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orfordness_transmitting_statio...
- glaucon 4y ago
  Broadcast shortwave (and long wave) uses Amplitude Modulation, the term "AM" has been hijacked in some forms of English to mean "medium wave" but it's not what it means to radio engineers etc. I can't complain because I regularly refer to VHF broadcasts as FM ;-) BTW in addition to shortwave BBC World Service broadcasts (or provides material for rebroadcast by local operators) in : Long Wave; VHF; DAB and Satellite.
userbinator 4y ago
Receivers are easy to put together and repair See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio Building a receiver out of whatever scrap you have around is a highly recommended exercise, and even more so if you have any kids (do it with them) --- the astonishment at seeing a pile of parts come together and make sounds, seemingly without any power source, is definitely an unforgettable experience.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The electronic gadgets that surround us inevitably have their roots in tangible physics, so projects like this that demonstrate that fact are enlightening and wonderous. Radio was among the first means of long-distance, widespread wireless communication owing to its simplicity, and that simplicity means it's very hardy against adversity and unlikely to meet its practical demise any time soon.

sn_master 4y ago

BBC Arabic was just discontinued last week. FTA: The move came as part of cost-cutting measures under which the news service is also ending its radio programming in 10 other languages, including Persian, Chinese and Hindi. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/business/media/bbc-arabic-radio-end.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/business/media/bbc-arabic...

glaucon 4y ago
Having discontinued most of the over the air broadcasts to Eastern Europe they turned them back on pretty quickly starting in February last year - I've no doubt that once Ukraine is finished the Foreign Office will be nagging to withdraw the funding again. So stupid, it's a lot of soft power for peanuts. Probably the suits are saying "but what about the internet" but the people you want to reach are the people whose internet is likely to be turned off when you want to talk to them.
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  You might have missed that Broadcast onto Ukrain territory / Central and eastern Europe in general has been turned off again.
aeontech 4y ago
That's tragic and shortsighted... for whatever faults BBC coverage might have, those 39M listeners it was reaching will now no longer have these alternate perspectives easily available to them relative to the other media in their countries. Less information is always a loss. And even if we ignore any altruistic motivations, it's a loss of soft power for the British / Western operations.
- irjustin 4y ago
  > That's tragic and shortsighted Tragic absolutely, shortsighted - no. You can't operate without money and news organizations can't survive in todays environment. The way we consume and gather around information simply isn't the same anymore.
  - ruined 4y ago
    it's the bbc, they are state funded.
    - sn_master 4y ago
      They were funded by a separate tax that everyone had to pay which got discontinued recently.
      - Quarrelsome 4y ago
        The TV license is still in effect and not everyone has to pay it. [1] How on earth have you obtained such obvious misinformation and why are you posting it so confidently? [1] https://www.gov.uk/tv-licence https://www.gov.uk/tv-licence
        midasuni 4y ago
        World service was funded separately from general taxation until a few years ago.
Quarrelsome 4y ago
It's an absolute disgrace and I hope everyone who is represented by an MP is writing to them to protest. Its bad enough to Brexit but to willingly give up soft power to save a tiny sliver of budget is shocking. Whoever figured "well its on the internet" appears to have forgotten that its purpose is to serve people under the sorts of governments that would aggressively block internet access to news sources unfriendly to the government.
mmmuhd 4y ago
On another note BBC Hausa service is facing mass resignation due to the newly opened TRT Hausa service (Turkey) promising the staff the BBC staff freedom to report positive News about Africa, unlike the BBC that only wants them to report negative and News about war and underdevelopment.

cannonpr 4y ago

Not to be pedantic, receiving is actually traceable to a motivated enough agent with sufficiently expensive equipment, especially if your receiver is home made or poorly built, due to oscillator leak back, there are a few other effects that can be used such as shadow casting. This gives a light idea of what’s possible: https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/2160/is-there-a-way-to-find-out-the-location-where-a-radio-signal-is-intercepted https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/2160/is-there-a-way-... I simply mention this because in some regimes and some situations, it’s best to understand what’s possible.

glaucon 4y ago
I'm sure you're right that a "motivated enough agent" might trace a receiver but the two replies in the ham.stackexchange.com answer seem pretty clear that it's very difficult to do in the real world. I appreciate technology may have changed but in the cold war many East Germans listened to the BBC East German service, in particular a programme called "Letters Without Signatures" [0] which relied on East Germans writing letters to the BBC . The programme ran for many years and clearly had a significant audience, I think if the Stasi had been able to detect reception they would have done so. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbchistoryresearch/entries/9a65132d-59c9-4937-a1d9-3df77242651e https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbchistoryresearch/entries/9a651...
zbrozek 4y ago
Odds of being tracked down that way are near-nil given that your oscillator could for anything. Also you can build a crummy AM receiver without one: https://www.buildcircuit.com/how-to-make-a-batteryless-crystal-set-radio/ https://www.buildcircuit.com/how-to-make-a-batteryless-cryst...
- smackeyacky 4y ago
  I had a "bionic man" doll when I was a kid that had a crystal radio built into his back (although on reflection it might have been the 3 faced robot guy). Seemed like magic at the time, got me into simple electronics.
JasonFruit 4y ago

int_19h 4y ago

"AM" in radio context generally means medium wave, not shortwave.

riceart 4y ago
AM in radio context means amplitude modulation - it’s the modulation, has nothing to do with the band. In common everyday layperson context it means all of medium-wave terrestrial broadcast. But even commercial pilots know their radios are AM for instance.
- int_19h 4y ago
  I meant specifically the phrase "AM radio" - a product advertised as such will usually not be capable of receiving shortwave, unless that is specifically mentioned. People who know what AM actually means tend to use words like "transceiver" anyway, not "radio".
  - 112233 4y ago
    Is this an US thing? Because over here in 80s radios had "long wave", "medium wave", "short wave" (1..6) and "ultra short wave", the later being called "FM" in export models. I do not recall bands being reffered to as "AM". Does it include LW/MW only, or is shortwave also called "AM radio"?
    - jdofaz 4y ago
      A common radio will have an AM band 530 kHz to 1700 kHz and a FM band 88 to 108 MHz. You'd have to buy a special radio to get more options.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      If you look up "AM/FM radio" on Amazon, you'll see plenty of examples. It does not include shortwave, unless specifically labelled "AM/FM/SW". Whether LW is included or not varies, probably because LW isn't used for broadcasting in US. I don't think it's just a US or NA thing. In my experience, at least, every casual consumer radio I ever handled that had English labels on it, outside of vintage stuff, used this terminology. More advanced consumer radios like Tecsun will usually avoid "AM" and use LW/MW/SW as appropriate, but then still refer to VHF as FM.

willis936 4y ago

Honestly FM receivers are not much more complicated than AM receivers and are much better. A full superheterodyne is not necessary if you really are in a survivalist scenario. A single transistor is the only non-linear component. https://www.circuitbasics.com/what-are-fm-receivers/ https://www.circuitbasics.com/what-are-fm-receivers/

systems_glitch 4y ago
Yeah but propagation.
LanceH 4y ago
FM is far more restricted by line of sight. AM is not dead between cities in Texas, if you're into Country, Tejano, or church broadcasts.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  The modulation, AM vs FM isn't necessarily the big determine factor on distance. AM can general travel farther on less power, but its more about the frequency choice. FM radio stations usually operate in the VHF/UHF band, which regardless of the modulation technique, it much more likely to be line of site. AM radio stations tend to operate on HF. HF frequencies have a higher change to do bounces. Its more about characteristics of the frequency being used in this case. Under the right conditions, the 6m band, even with FM, can experience "sporadic E" and you can talk quiet far on it.
ekianjo 4y ago
FM does not transmit to thousands of kilometers...
- dheera 4y ago
  Only because of the frequencies typically used, not because it's FM
  - 4y ago

fomine3 4y ago

Just curious why they hopping frequency

giantrobot 4y ago
Shortwave propagates differently during the day and at night. Its propagation is mainly due to bounding off layers of the ionosphere. Different layers absorb and reflect different frequencies. During the day (relative to the broadcaster) frequencies above 12MHz propagate farther than lower frequencies. At night this effect is reversed.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

insane_dreamer 4y ago

Doesn't BBC WS broadcast over shortwave, not AM? I used to listen to it in many different countries (though no longer because ... Internet).

mvexel 4y ago
They used to have an AM transmitter that reached most? of Europe, but it was shut down in 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orfordness_transmitting_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orfordness_transmitting_statio...
glaucon 4y ago
Broadcast shortwave (and long wave) uses Amplitude Modulation, the term "AM" has been hijacked in some forms of English to mean "medium wave" but it's not what it means to radio engineers etc. I can't complain because I regularly refer to VHF broadcasts as FM ;-) BTW in addition to shortwave BBC World Service broadcasts (or provides material for rebroadcast by local operators) in : Long Wave; VHF; DAB and Satellite.

userbinator 4y ago

Receivers are easy to put together and repair See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio Building a receiver out of whatever scrap you have around is a highly recommended exercise, and even more so if you have any kids (do it with them) --- the astonishment at seeing a pile of parts come together and make sounds, seemingly without any power source, is definitely an unforgettable experience.

Dalewyn 4y ago
The electronic gadgets that surround us inevitably have their roots in tangible physics, so projects like this that demonstrate that fact are enlightening and wonderous. Radio was among the first means of long-distance, widespread wireless communication owing to its simplicity, and that simplicity means it's very hardy against adversity and unlikely to meet its practical demise any time soon.