4 ms·

How are downvotes proving your point?

mike-cardwell 15y ago
Because people are blind to Google doing evil and immediately jump to defend them (by downvoting in this case) This is exactly where their undeserved reputation is harmful. It lets them get away with things that other corporations wouldn't be able to. If what the blog described is true. Then Google did Evil. It does not matter which branch of Google. If Microsoft did the same, they wouldn't be defended half as much as Google is being.
- swombat 15y ago
  I downvoted you, not because "I'm blind to the fact that Google does bad stuff", or to defend Google, but simply because you sound like a malcontent with an axe to grind and not much substance to back up your personal crusade against Google. Google is no more or less evil (or hypocritical) than other corporations that size.
  - mike-cardwell 15y ago
    "Google is no more or less evil (or hypocritical) than other corporations that size." Exactly my point Therefore their "does no evil" reputation is undeserved. At no point did I specify that Google is more evil than any other company, but only that their reputation is undeserved, and people need waking up to this fact. If this latest action was sanctioned by head office, then Googles "does no evil" reputation becomes impossible to defend.
    - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
      Who cares what a group of people think? Especially on the Internet? The only real use of 'public opinion' is trolling people with their own cognitive dissonance. Without strong evidence, you just sound whiny.
      - mike-cardwell 15y ago
        "Who cares what a group of people think" Everybody. Every single person who has ever existed and every single person who will ever exist.
- urbanjunkie 15y ago
  That's certainly not why I downvoted you. So, how does my downvote prove your point? PS - it may surprise you, but there are PLENTY of people on Hacker News who don't think Google is the epitome of all that is good.
  - mike-cardwell 15y ago
    I was only including people who understood my point. I can see how people who misunderstood my point might have downvoted me for other reasons.
- mangodrunk 15y ago
  What is your evidence of such things? Your argument is rather stupid. Did you not do so well in your interview there?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    "Your argument is rather stupid." "Did you not do so well in your interview there?" Pot, meet kettle.
    - waterhouse 15y ago
      On a random note, is there a more timeless variation on that phrase? The pots and the kettle that I usually encounter are all made of shiny, silver-colored metal, except for their handles; I've seen a couple of black-metal pots, but not routinely. ...A Wikipedia article[1] suggests that a pot might have been blackened by smoke from being held over a wood fire, which obviously does not happen with electric stoves. Anyway, at this point, in the spirit of George Orwell[2], I consider it to be a dying metaphor, and have no desire to put it into my writing. Hence my desire for alternatives. So, first off, there is the word "hypocrite". And then if you want a clever thing to say, I don't think "You see the speck in your brother's eye but ignore the plank in your own" will become obsolete, at least for a while. (As long as wood is used for construction, it will probably be put into planks, and people will probably encounter them at some point in their lives. And I don't think "plank" has any competing meanings at the moment.) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black [2] "Politics and the English Language". In particular, do a text search for "dying metaphors". http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        Eh, there seem to be a good number of black pots for sale on amazon, though they are undoubtedly black for other reasons than pots used to be black for. I have a cast iron kettle that I use as a door stop that's also quite black, though I do suspect it's rather old. First result for "pot": http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-619-16-Nonstick-Hard-Anodized-Saucepan/dp/B0001LO5EK/ http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-619-16-Nonstick-Hard-Anodize...
- ErrantX 15y ago
  they wouldn't be defended half as much as Google is being. I think you need to re-adjust your filter :) In this thread, for example, the only defence is people questioning whether it is actually Google doing this. That's reasonable; Google is a major target for scammers. I reckon we (a UK ISV) get about 2-3 calls a month from "Google" offering us various services. If you dig a bit they might admit to being "partnered with Google"; but it's all bullshit. It doesn't seem an unreasonable assumption that the same might have happened here. I don't, however, seeing anyone defending what has happened...
  - brudgers 15y ago
    Google's initiative explicitly allows co-branding...ymmv as to what that means depending on if you are in Kenya or Arkansas. http://www.kbo.co.ke/partnerbenefits http://www.kbo.co.ke/partnerbenefits
- jrockway 15y ago
  You're being downvoted because you have a very strong opinion and are providing no information to support it. What's so evil about Google? Open-sourcing Chrome? Personalizing search results? Free email hosting? (I'm not being sarcastic with these examples. Gmail was terrible for Hotmail -- it was a lot better and nobody wanted Hotmail anymore. Chrome is similar; it gained traction a lot faster than Firefox, and is stealing developer mindshare. If you are Microsoft or Mozilla, I can see how this might be "evil". But if we compare it to the Holocaust...)

Because people are blind to Google doing evil and immediately jump to defend them (by downvoting in this case) This is exactly where their undeserved reputation is harmful. It lets them get away with things that other corporations wouldn't be able to. If what the blog described is true. Then Google did Evil. It does not matter which branch of Google. If Microsoft did the same, they wouldn't be defended half as much as Google is being.

swombat 15y ago
I downvoted you, not because "I'm blind to the fact that Google does bad stuff", or to defend Google, but simply because you sound like a malcontent with an axe to grind and not much substance to back up your personal crusade against Google. Google is no more or less evil (or hypocritical) than other corporations that size.
- mike-cardwell 15y ago
  "Google is no more or less evil (or hypocritical) than other corporations that size." Exactly my point Therefore their "does no evil" reputation is undeserved. At no point did I specify that Google is more evil than any other company, but only that their reputation is undeserved, and people need waking up to this fact. If this latest action was sanctioned by head office, then Googles "does no evil" reputation becomes impossible to defend.
  - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
    Who cares what a group of people think? Especially on the Internet? The only real use of 'public opinion' is trolling people with their own cognitive dissonance. Without strong evidence, you just sound whiny.
    - mike-cardwell 15y ago
      "Who cares what a group of people think" Everybody. Every single person who has ever existed and every single person who will ever exist.
urbanjunkie 15y ago
That's certainly not why I downvoted you. So, how does my downvote prove your point? PS - it may surprise you, but there are PLENTY of people on Hacker News who don't think Google is the epitome of all that is good.
- mike-cardwell 15y ago
  I was only including people who understood my point. I can see how people who misunderstood my point might have downvoted me for other reasons.
mangodrunk 15y ago
What is your evidence of such things? Your argument is rather stupid. Did you not do so well in your interview there?
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  "Your argument is rather stupid." "Did you not do so well in your interview there?" Pot, meet kettle.
  - waterhouse 15y ago
    On a random note, is there a more timeless variation on that phrase? The pots and the kettle that I usually encounter are all made of shiny, silver-colored metal, except for their handles; I've seen a couple of black-metal pots, but not routinely. ...A Wikipedia article[1] suggests that a pot might have been blackened by smoke from being held over a wood fire, which obviously does not happen with electric stoves. Anyway, at this point, in the spirit of George Orwell[2], I consider it to be a dying metaphor, and have no desire to put it into my writing. Hence my desire for alternatives. So, first off, there is the word "hypocrite". And then if you want a clever thing to say, I don't think "You see the speck in your brother's eye but ignore the plank in your own" will become obsolete, at least for a while. (As long as wood is used for construction, it will probably be put into planks, and people will probably encounter them at some point in their lives. And I don't think "plank" has any competing meanings at the moment.) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black [2] "Politics and the English Language". In particular, do a text search for "dying metaphors". http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Eh, there seem to be a good number of black pots for sale on amazon, though they are undoubtedly black for other reasons than pots used to be black for. I have a cast iron kettle that I use as a door stop that's also quite black, though I do suspect it's rather old. First result for "pot": http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-619-16-Nonstick-Hard-Anodized-Saucepan/dp/B0001LO5EK/ http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-619-16-Nonstick-Hard-Anodize...
ErrantX 15y ago
they wouldn't be defended half as much as Google is being. I think you need to re-adjust your filter :) In this thread, for example, the only defence is people questioning whether it is actually Google doing this. That's reasonable; Google is a major target for scammers. I reckon we (a UK ISV) get about 2-3 calls a month from "Google" offering us various services. If you dig a bit they might admit to being "partnered with Google"; but it's all bullshit. It doesn't seem an unreasonable assumption that the same might have happened here. I don't, however, seeing anyone defending what has happened...
- brudgers 15y ago
  Google's initiative explicitly allows co-branding...ymmv as to what that means depending on if you are in Kenya or Arkansas. http://www.kbo.co.ke/partnerbenefits http://www.kbo.co.ke/partnerbenefits
jrockway 15y ago
You're being downvoted because you have a very strong opinion and are providing no information to support it. What's so evil about Google? Open-sourcing Chrome? Personalizing search results? Free email hosting? (I'm not being sarcastic with these examples. Gmail was terrible for Hotmail -- it was a lot better and nobody wanted Hotmail anymore. Chrome is similar; it gained traction a lot faster than Firefox, and is stealing developer mindshare. If you are Microsoft or Mozilla, I can see how this might be "evil". But if we compare it to the Holocaust...)