4 ms·

I'm curious to see how this ends up. The upsell is the part that makes me suspicious, because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that Google would do.

I'm curious to see how this ends up. The upsell is the part that makes me suspicious, because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that Google would do. My guess is this. It is someone claiming to be Google and selling a service that is actually free. That's a pretty common thing to see in Africa, in Rwanda we see people 'selling' Google Apps for domains all the time. The WHOIS lookup does give me pause though.

ma2rten 15y ago
Could the http requests be made from Google App Engine? Then again, why would the scammers go though such hoops.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- rmc 15y ago
  Hide themselves? It's essentially a form of proxy.
- cellis 15y ago
  For legitimacy. Don't make the mistake of thinking the only people who know about App Engine are San Franciscan hipsters with Macbook Pros. Blackhat hackers stay just as updated on technology trends as everyone else.
  - tripzilch 15y ago
    That still doesn't make sense. The only thing the scammers did with those IPs seems to have been searching the Mocality database. The only reason why those IPs even got exposed is because of the thorough investigation Mocality has made (or, claims to have made): After the first wave of confused calls by their customers, they cross-checked their logs and found one IP with an uncommon UA accessing all these records, then they served a fake phone number to that IP and confirmed that whoever was making these fraudulent calls was indeed operating from that IP and claiming to be Google in cooperation with Mocality. Now it could be that these are scammers that found a clever way to proxy through Google on the off-chance that Mocality would do this investigation and evidence would continue to point to Google? Ok I get "pretending to be someone else" is scamming 101, but "pretending to be someone else when the person you're pretending to be cooperating with finds out about and the scam is pretty much exposed" it just sounds like an incredible amount of trouble for an eventuality that is very unlikely and even then it doesn't seem to help much? "No, let's somehow proxy through Google so that if Mocality becomes suspicious and tracks us they'll think it's Google and the whole Internet will get confused and the people of HN will get into arguments ... mwuahahahaha ... excellent ..." Can't you see, this is what Google wants us to think! ;-)
nicpottier 15y ago
Reading the complete transcript here: <http://blog.mocality.co.ke/files/2012/01/Incoming_Call-Redacted-20111221-1133502.pdf&#62 http://blog.mocality.co.ke/files/2012/01/Incoming_Call-Redac...; It makes me believe that it is Google, though I still find the monthly hosting charge thing a bit strange, because I can't find any mention of that on their site. Apart from the false information about Mocality, does Google using their directory to do these cold calls actually violate Mocality's Terms of Use? Really curious to see Google's response. Joe Muchera (head of Google Kenya) says he's looking into it. That not being an immediate dismissal makes me think it is indeed a Google initiative, though one that went off the rails.
- ErrantX 15y ago
  To me it reads a lot like a scam. Gmail addresses to send data to, vague comments about cost and features. A lot of bullshit about Google. We get SEO and "host your website" scam calls now and again (maybe 2 or 3 times a month) - since my boss went to an "SEO & Hosting workshop" sigh - and it sounds a lot like some of them.
- rmc 15y ago
  Reading the complete transcript here: … It makes me believe that it is Google How so? I read it and it looked like one of those crappy scams? How does this strike you as a legitimate Google employee?
- jontas 15y ago
  The post mentions that Google was violating their T&Cs: When we started this investigation, I thought that we’d catch a rogue call-centre employee, point out to Google that they were violating our Terms and conditions (sections 9.12 and 9.17, amongst others), someone would get a slap on the wrist, and life would continue.
  - URSpider94 15y ago
    NO. The post says that, -if- Google is doing what someone pretending to be Google is apparently doing, then Google would be violating its own T&C's. Please read carefully so as not to turn a hypothetical statement into an inaccurate fact.
henrikschroder 15y ago
> It is someone claiming to be Google and selling a service that is actually free. That's a pretty common thing to see in Africa I bet it's pretty common everywhere, I know it happens in Sweden regularly, although the scam companies are shut down pretty quickly over here.
tonio09 15y ago
Do you know where all those companies are that follow ethical practices? Out of business. This is a dog eats god world. Survival of the fittest. Google didn't get this big by having an excellent search algorithm. That's only half the story. They elbowed out all their competition until it was only them left on top. They are unethical assholes who win.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
"The upsell is the part that makes me suspicious, because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that Google would do." You haven't worked with their sales team then. Sales people (Commissionus Salesdroidicus :-) live and breath to win, and winning means creating leads, converting leads, and booking business. Hopefully the folks inside Google who believe in transparency and doing business competitively but honestly, will be able to pressure the teams who endorse this sort of activity. The next step will be the more interesting one. Do they they stop scraping Mocality? Do they enter into a dialog to actually partner with them? Or do they start using Tor nodes to scrape the site and stop telling people they are from Google? When that next chapter plays out the true nature of the business is revealed.

ma2rten 15y ago

Could the http requests be made from Google App Engine? Then again, why would the scammers go though such hoops.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rmc 15y ago
Hide themselves? It's essentially a form of proxy.
cellis 15y ago
For legitimacy. Don't make the mistake of thinking the only people who know about App Engine are San Franciscan hipsters with Macbook Pros. Blackhat hackers stay just as updated on technology trends as everyone else.
- tripzilch 15y ago
  That still doesn't make sense. The only thing the scammers did with those IPs seems to have been searching the Mocality database. The only reason why those IPs even got exposed is because of the thorough investigation Mocality has made (or, claims to have made): After the first wave of confused calls by their customers, they cross-checked their logs and found one IP with an uncommon UA accessing all these records, then they served a fake phone number to that IP and confirmed that whoever was making these fraudulent calls was indeed operating from that IP and claiming to be Google in cooperation with Mocality. Now it could be that these are scammers that found a clever way to proxy through Google on the off-chance that Mocality would do this investigation and evidence would continue to point to Google? Ok I get "pretending to be someone else" is scamming 101, but "pretending to be someone else when the person you're pretending to be cooperating with finds out about and the scam is pretty much exposed" it just sounds like an incredible amount of trouble for an eventuality that is very unlikely and even then it doesn't seem to help much? "No, let's somehow proxy through Google so that if Mocality becomes suspicious and tracks us they'll think it's Google and the whole Internet will get confused and the people of HN will get into arguments ... mwuahahahaha ... excellent ..." Can't you see, this is what Google wants us to think! ;-)

nicpottier 15y ago

Reading the complete transcript here: <http://blog.mocality.co.ke/files/2012/01/Incoming_Call-Redacted-20111221-1133502.pdf&#62 http://blog.mocality.co.ke/files/2012/01/Incoming_Call-Redac...; It makes me believe that it is Google, though I still find the monthly hosting charge thing a bit strange, because I can't find any mention of that on their site. Apart from the false information about Mocality, does Google using their directory to do these cold calls actually violate Mocality's Terms of Use? Really curious to see Google's response. Joe Muchera (head of Google Kenya) says he's looking into it. That not being an immediate dismissal makes me think it is indeed a Google initiative, though one that went off the rails.

ErrantX 15y ago
To me it reads a lot like a scam. Gmail addresses to send data to, vague comments about cost and features. A lot of bullshit about Google. We get SEO and "host your website" scam calls now and again (maybe 2 or 3 times a month) - since my boss went to an "SEO & Hosting workshop" sigh - and it sounds a lot like some of them.
rmc 15y ago
Reading the complete transcript here: … It makes me believe that it is Google How so? I read it and it looked like one of those crappy scams? How does this strike you as a legitimate Google employee?
jontas 15y ago
The post mentions that Google was violating their T&Cs: When we started this investigation, I thought that we’d catch a rogue call-centre employee, point out to Google that they were violating our Terms and conditions (sections 9.12 and 9.17, amongst others), someone would get a slap on the wrist, and life would continue.
- URSpider94 15y ago
  NO. The post says that, -if- Google is doing what someone pretending to be Google is apparently doing, then Google would be violating its own T&C's. Please read carefully so as not to turn a hypothetical statement into an inaccurate fact.

henrikschroder 15y ago

> It is someone claiming to be Google and selling a service that is actually free. That's a pretty common thing to see in Africa I bet it's pretty common everywhere, I know it happens in Sweden regularly, although the scam companies are shut down pretty quickly over here.

tonio09 15y ago

Do you know where all those companies are that follow ethical practices? Out of business. This is a dog eats god world. Survival of the fittest. Google didn't get this big by having an excellent search algorithm. That's only half the story. They elbowed out all their competition until it was only them left on top. They are unethical assholes who win.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

"The upsell is the part that makes me suspicious, because that doesn't sound like the type of thing that Google would do." You haven't worked with their sales team then. Sales people (Commissionus Salesdroidicus :-) live and breath to win, and winning means creating leads, converting leads, and booking business. Hopefully the folks inside Google who believe in transparency and doing business competitively but honestly, will be able to pressure the teams who endorse this sort of activity. The next step will be the more interesting one. Do they they stop scraping Mocality? Do they enter into a dialog to actually partner with them? Or do they start using Tor nodes to scrape the site and stop telling people they are from Google? When that next chapter plays out the true nature of the business is revealed.