4 ms·

Isn't working smart somewhat implied? Tossing a five gallon jug on your shoulder and running up and down a flight of stairs for hours is REALLY hard work. And

by dolni 4y ago

Isn't working smart somewhat implied? Tossing a five gallon jug on your shoulder and running up and down a flight of stairs for hours is REALLY hard work. And yet you don't see people take this on as a job and then complain about it. So instead someone goes out and gets an entry-level position. The options are limited, because they have no skills. The problem now is they never invest in building skills, so they are stuck in shit-tier jobs forever. I want to have some empathy for this. But if I go to a convenience store and somehow it takes the cashier 10 minutes to checkout 3 people, that empathy becomes hard to find. At the end of the day, every person getting a paycheck needs to produce more value to the business than they get paid. The only other way is to tax people who DO actually contribute and spread the money around. There are some serious concerns of fairness about that.

WalterBright 4y ago
> Isn't working smart somewhat implied? Too many people believe in the labor theory of value, meaning one should get paid according to how hard and long one works. This theory is a false god, because employers do not care how long or hard you work, they only care about the value produced. Being smart means applying your efforts at producing value, and finding ways to produce more value.
- dmreedy 4y ago
  They're all false gods. Chicago economics are just as much of a demiurge as any model that includes "just" or distributional reward. It mostly comes down to whom god favors. Do you believe that most hard workers don't believe they are applying their efforts towards producing value? Do you believe that everyone who receives reward for producing value , did?
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Free markets are about enabling people to produce value and reap the benefits of that value. That works, as history very amply shows.
    - dmreedy 4y ago
      I fully understand the narrative of the Free Market. The question isn't what it does; the question is how, and at what cost. It works to what end? For whom? Certainly for some individuals, but does it work for them by the rules of its own narrative? For some concept of "Humanity"? Maybe, but I'm not sure the apparent demographic distributions at play here resemble "Humanity" in any meaningful statistical sense.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > This theory is a false god, because employers do not care how long or hard you work, they only care about the value produced. But they don't pay for "value produced" either and instead pocket as much of the surplus value as possible. The game is rigged.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    In fact, any surplus value from labor you are not pocketing/delivering to your shareholders is value left on the table and makes you a bad exec. Thus, the proper way to do it is to minimize the information your workers get, keep them hungry/afraid/without fallback medical care, and make sure they have no other option but to break their back for you.

by dolni 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

> Isn't working smart somewhat implied? Too many people believe in the labor theory of value, meaning one should get paid according to how hard and long one works. This theory is a false god, because employers do not care how long or hard you work, they only care about the value produced. Being smart means applying your efforts at producing value, and finding ways to produce more value.

dmreedy 4y ago
They're all false gods. Chicago economics are just as much of a demiurge as any model that includes "just" or distributional reward. It mostly comes down to whom god favors. Do you believe that most hard workers don't believe they are applying their efforts towards producing value? Do you believe that everyone who receives reward for producing value , did?
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Free markets are about enabling people to produce value and reap the benefits of that value. That works, as history very amply shows.
  - dmreedy 4y ago
    I fully understand the narrative of the Free Market. The question isn't what it does; the question is how, and at what cost. It works to what end? For whom? Certainly for some individuals, but does it work for them by the rules of its own narrative? For some concept of "Humanity"? Maybe, but I'm not sure the apparent demographic distributions at play here resemble "Humanity" in any meaningful statistical sense.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> This theory is a false god, because employers do not care how long or hard you work, they only care about the value produced. But they don't pay for "value produced" either and instead pocket as much of the surplus value as possible. The game is rigged.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  In fact, any surplus value from labor you are not pocketing/delivering to your shareholders is value left on the table and makes you a bad exec. Thus, the proper way to do it is to minimize the information your workers get, keep them hungry/afraid/without fallback medical care, and make sure they have no other option but to break their back for you.