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> From many years of experience following Apple news, I can predict that hordes of Apple defenders will come out of the woodwork to blame the Reddit poster for

> From many years of experience following Apple news, I can predict that hordes of Apple defenders will come out of the woodwork to blame the Reddit poster for failing to cancel the App Store trials in time. It's not Apple's fault if an individual consumer fails in their personal responsibility, right? You called it OP. I’m trying to understand how this is Apple’s fault or how they owe the Reddit poster a refund. Are opt-out free trials a bit of a scummy thing to do? Yes and I would never utilize one as a seller, but neither the seller nor Apple are committing fraud here. The terms of the transaction are clearly spelled out before you commit to it. Perhaps Apple could provide a short grace period with automated refunds as long as the user cancels within 3 days of payment or so? That might be a good compromise here.

lapcat 4y ago
> You called it OP. Thank you. > I’m trying to understand how this is Apple’s fault Apple: "it’s by design" > neither the seller nor Apple are committing fraud here. As the article points out, many App Store developers are in fact committing fraud, but Apple does little or nothing about that. > The terms of the transaction are clearly spelled out before you commit to it. Are they? From the article: "What is Apple's App Store refund policy? An as App Store developer and consumer, I honestly don't know!" Retail stores typically have some kind of publicly posted refund policy, unlike the App Store.
- lockhouse 4y ago
  Yes but it was a free trial where you are told up front that you will be charged if you don’t cancel within X number of days. It is not the fault of Apple or the App Store developers if the customer waits until X+n days to cancel it. They are not owed a refund.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    You seem to be speaking as if this were a purely legal issue, rather than an ethical one. Trustworthy businesses don't pull that kind of crap. And as the title of the article indicates, the raison d'être of Apple's App Store lockdown is allegedly to protect consumers. But it doesn't protect consumers.
    - lockhouse 4y ago
      No one is forcing the App Store devs in question to use this style of free trial. It is completely possible to offer a time limited trial that just ends and forces the user to pay for the software when time is up, or other monetization strategies such as freemium, subscription, or IAP for premium features.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > No one is forcing the App Store devs in question to use this style of free trial. They don't have to be forced. Scammers love this pricing model.
        lockhouse 4y ago
        How is this a scam? If I buy something from a big box retailer and fail to return it before the return policy ends, is that the retailer scamming me when they refuse to refund my money?
        lapcat 4y ago
        > If I buy something from a big box retailer and fail to return it before the return policy ends Notice the word buy here, not try. There's a world of difference between buying and trying. When you walk out of the retail store, you've already intentionally paid your money. With a trial, you don't necessarily have an intention to buy. As I said in the article: "People often compare App Store to a retail store, but what physical retail store in the world allows you to walk out the door with 84% of its products without paying anything?"
        tpmoney 4y ago
        > As I said in the article: "People often compare App Store to a retail store, but what physical retail store in the world allows you to walk out the door with 84% of its products without paying anything?" Buy now, bill me later is a pretty common thing in retail. Technically I suppose you're still "buying", but you haven't paid for anything yet any more than you have when you subscribe for something with a free trial first. Likewise, Amazon (and some other online clothing retailers) offer "try it on at home first, pay after you decide to keep it" models. And then there's sit down restaurants which allow you to order as much as you want and pay after you've eaten. And if you go really up scale, they may not even have prices on the menu and you get surprised by the costs at the end.

lapcat 4y ago

> You called it OP. Thank you. > I’m trying to understand how this is Apple’s fault Apple: "it’s by design" > neither the seller nor Apple are committing fraud here. As the article points out, many App Store developers are in fact committing fraud, but Apple does little or nothing about that. > The terms of the transaction are clearly spelled out before you commit to it. Are they? From the article: "What is Apple's App Store refund policy? An as App Store developer and consumer, I honestly don't know!" Retail stores typically have some kind of publicly posted refund policy, unlike the App Store.

lockhouse 4y ago
Yes but it was a free trial where you are told up front that you will be charged if you don’t cancel within X number of days. It is not the fault of Apple or the App Store developers if the customer waits until X+n days to cancel it. They are not owed a refund.
- lapcat 4y ago
  You seem to be speaking as if this were a purely legal issue, rather than an ethical one. Trustworthy businesses don't pull that kind of crap. And as the title of the article indicates, the raison d'être of Apple's App Store lockdown is allegedly to protect consumers. But it doesn't protect consumers.
  - lockhouse 4y ago
    No one is forcing the App Store devs in question to use this style of free trial. It is completely possible to offer a time limited trial that just ends and forces the user to pay for the software when time is up, or other monetization strategies such as freemium, subscription, or IAP for premium features.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > No one is forcing the App Store devs in question to use this style of free trial. They don't have to be forced. Scammers love this pricing model.
      - lockhouse 4y ago
        How is this a scam? If I buy something from a big box retailer and fail to return it before the return policy ends, is that the retailer scamming me when they refuse to refund my money?
        lapcat 4y ago
        > If I buy something from a big box retailer and fail to return it before the return policy ends Notice the word buy here, not try. There's a world of difference between buying and trying. When you walk out of the retail store, you've already intentionally paid your money. With a trial, you don't necessarily have an intention to buy. As I said in the article: "People often compare App Store to a retail store, but what physical retail store in the world allows you to walk out the door with 84% of its products without paying anything?"
        tpmoney 4y ago
        > As I said in the article: "People often compare App Store to a retail store, but what physical retail store in the world allows you to walk out the door with 84% of its products without paying anything?" Buy now, bill me later is a pretty common thing in retail. Technically I suppose you're still "buying", but you haven't paid for anything yet any more than you have when you subscribe for something with a free trial first. Likewise, Amazon (and some other online clothing retailers) offer "try it on at home first, pay after you decide to keep it" models. And then there's sit down restaurants which allow you to order as much as you want and pay after you've eaten. And if you go really up scale, they may not even have prices on the menu and you get surprised by the costs at the end.