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The wording is a bit vague so it’s hard to tell, but as a Tesla owner I hope they get raked over the coals for the whole “FSD will be released this year” 10 yea

The wording is a bit vague so it’s hard to tell, but as a Tesla owner I hope they get raked over the coals for the whole “FSD will be released this year” 10 years in a row. Past a certain point it’s not a naive mistake, it’s deliberately lying to boost sales.

buildbot 4y ago
At the risk of sounding a little callous, yeah, what did you expect? Tesla has had the same MO since Musk took over. Though also he should still be raked over the coals.
- reeckoh 4y ago
  There is an old parable about a frog and a scorpion: >A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but it is my nature". Should we accept that the scorpion will always sting its associates, and continue to allow them to hitch rides on frogs? Or should we prevent the scorpions from getting into a position where they can sting others once their nature is readily apparent?
  - timerol 4y ago
    > Though also he should still be raked over the coals. I think GP's position on that question is abundantly clear
  - abfan1127 4y ago
    can we educate frogs, warn scorpions, still allow frogs to give rides, and hold scorpions accountable?
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    We should ask, given the risk, what was the pay off for the frog? This applies to FSD. Why risk your life testing software for the benefit of Tesla? Either FSD frogs are irrationally altruistic given that Tesla is a corporation, with wealthy shareholders, they are unable to judge the risk, or they are being mislead. Given the large number of FSD frogs enforcement seems inevitable.
  - peterfirefly 4y ago
    Not that old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
    - dmonitor 4y ago
      I feel like I've seen it referenced a lot more in the past year. Did it get referenced on a podcast or something?
- cowthulhu 4y ago
  Grr, I almost didn’t post my comment because I knew I’d get a few replies like this. Yeah, I know, I know. But I bought a Tesla because I like the brand and liked Musk, so figured even if he was wrong it wouldn’t be far off. So victim blame away, but I still think the overwhelming brunt of the blame is on the liar, not the naive sucker who believed them. Sorry if this reply comes across as mean - not a criticism of you or anything, just personally dislike that way of viewing things.
  - camjohnson26 4y ago
    Yeah it’s a callous point of view because it assumes everyone has the same point of view and level of information. You used a heuristic that works sometimes and fails sometimes and the real blame should fall on the person committing fraud and the agencies that failed to stop the fraud. Even if you could have avoided the situation other people would have still been victims.
    - buildbot 4y ago
      Right, but the info was available for anyone who wanted to look into it. And people tried to help others by suggesting against pre-paying for FSD…
  - buildbot 4y ago
    Nah I was mean too, it is warranted. Different ways of viewing things for sure. The part that I feel is on everyone who bought into FSD is that literally every expert in self driving (A field I was in directly at the time) was pretty sure Tesla was never going to get there with there hardware. Tesla supporters were quite rude denying this.

buildbot 4y ago

At the risk of sounding a little callous, yeah, what did you expect? Tesla has had the same MO since Musk took over. Though also he should still be raked over the coals.

reeckoh 4y ago
There is an old parable about a frog and a scorpion: >A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but it is my nature". Should we accept that the scorpion will always sting its associates, and continue to allow them to hitch rides on frogs? Or should we prevent the scorpions from getting into a position where they can sting others once their nature is readily apparent?
- timerol 4y ago
  > Though also he should still be raked over the coals. I think GP's position on that question is abundantly clear
- abfan1127 4y ago
  can we educate frogs, warn scorpions, still allow frogs to give rides, and hold scorpions accountable?
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  We should ask, given the risk, what was the pay off for the frog? This applies to FSD. Why risk your life testing software for the benefit of Tesla? Either FSD frogs are irrationally altruistic given that Tesla is a corporation, with wealthy shareholders, they are unable to judge the risk, or they are being mislead. Given the large number of FSD frogs enforcement seems inevitable.
- peterfirefly 4y ago
  Not that old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
  - dmonitor 4y ago
    I feel like I've seen it referenced a lot more in the past year. Did it get referenced on a podcast or something?
cowthulhu 4y ago
Grr, I almost didn’t post my comment because I knew I’d get a few replies like this. Yeah, I know, I know. But I bought a Tesla because I like the brand and liked Musk, so figured even if he was wrong it wouldn’t be far off. So victim blame away, but I still think the overwhelming brunt of the blame is on the liar, not the naive sucker who believed them. Sorry if this reply comes across as mean - not a criticism of you or anything, just personally dislike that way of viewing things.
- camjohnson26 4y ago
  Yeah it’s a callous point of view because it assumes everyone has the same point of view and level of information. You used a heuristic that works sometimes and fails sometimes and the real blame should fall on the person committing fraud and the agencies that failed to stop the fraud. Even if you could have avoided the situation other people would have still been victims.
  - buildbot 4y ago
    Right, but the info was available for anyone who wanted to look into it. And people tried to help others by suggesting against pre-paying for FSD…
- buildbot 4y ago
  Nah I was mean too, it is warranted. Different ways of viewing things for sure. The part that I feel is on everyone who bought into FSD is that literally every expert in self driving (A field I was in directly at the time) was pretty sure Tesla was never going to get there with there hardware. Tesla supporters were quite rude denying this.