7 ms·

I get not wanting to suddenly put an extra five hundred families onto a road that was only designed for a hundred single-family dwellings. What I don't get is b

by causi 4y ago

I get not wanting to suddenly put an extra five hundred families onto a road that was only designed for a hundred single-family dwellings. What I don't get is being so nimby that you'd rather have your streets utterly full of homeless people and human waste.

nxm 4y ago
I see tons of homeless surrounded by tall residential apartment buildings.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
I don't think that it's a preference either/or for nimby people. It's important to steelman arguments to better understand the incentives of people. My understanding is that there is a personal desire not to have one's personal life rapidly disrupted by increased demand of communal resources such as road space. There's a desire to consistently put off this rapid change. The second-order effects like an increased presence of homelessness doesn't intuitively have to do with not building an apartment: you can reason to yourself as a homeowner that these are people not even from your suburb community, but strangers invading it and ruining it, adding to the notion that more people decreases your quality of life personally.
rr888 4y ago
I dont see why new million dollar condos will help homeless at all.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  20% of them are for low income only.
  - creeble 4y ago
    Below-average income, not low income. Homeless people typically have zero income. They will qualify for exactly zero of the new housing these "unzoning" laws permit.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      > Homeless people typically have zero income This is not my understanding. 70% of the homeless in SF had an apartment before they became homeless. They had income, but weren't able to continue to afford the apartment. There's certainly a portion of people who have no desire to be productive, but it's far from all of the homeless or even a majority.
  - rr888 4y ago
    Says who? There are no zoning powers right.
    - alexb_ 4y ago
      Says the state. It's the cities that are losing power.
      - rr888 4y ago
        I could only find local rules eg https://sfplanning.org/home-sf https://sfplanning.org/home-sf. Or a tax break for financing https://www.calpfa.org/private-activity-programs/affordable-multifamily-housing-bonds/ https://www.calpfa.org/private-activity-programs/affordable-...
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        DId you read the post?
- kevinburke 4y ago
  Imagine if there was a law that only permitted the construction of cars that cost over $100,000 per year, and then think about the effects of that on used car prices
- Tiktaalik 4y ago
  the status quo of barely building any new housing at all also doesn't help the homeless at all
Slighted 4y ago
Alternatives/"solutions" aren't always better than that which they seek to replace or fix and may very well be noticeably worse. Homeless people are an annoyance but so is extremely dense housing to the point that local resources and infrastructure are overloaded. In addition, I'm skeptical that the new housing developments will even resolve the homeless problem, as its not really targeting the root cause of the issue. Most of the homeless aren't keen on helping themselves, either. You'd have more luck shipping them off to coal mines to work than this, I reckon.

by causi 4y ago

nxm 4y ago

I see tons of homeless surrounded by tall residential apartment buildings.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

I don't think that it's a preference either/or for nimby people. It's important to steelman arguments to better understand the incentives of people. My understanding is that there is a personal desire not to have one's personal life rapidly disrupted by increased demand of communal resources such as road space. There's a desire to consistently put off this rapid change. The second-order effects like an increased presence of homelessness doesn't intuitively have to do with not building an apartment: you can reason to yourself as a homeowner that these are people not even from your suburb community, but strangers invading it and ruining it, adding to the notion that more people decreases your quality of life personally.

rr888 4y ago

I dont see why new million dollar condos will help homeless at all.

HDThoreaun 4y ago
20% of them are for low income only.
- creeble 4y ago
  Below-average income, not low income. Homeless people typically have zero income. They will qualify for exactly zero of the new housing these "unzoning" laws permit.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    > Homeless people typically have zero income This is not my understanding. 70% of the homeless in SF had an apartment before they became homeless. They had income, but weren't able to continue to afford the apartment. There's certainly a portion of people who have no desire to be productive, but it's far from all of the homeless or even a majority.
- rr888 4y ago
  Says who? There are no zoning powers right.
  - alexb_ 4y ago
    Says the state. It's the cities that are losing power.
    - rr888 4y ago
      I could only find local rules eg https://sfplanning.org/home-sf https://sfplanning.org/home-sf. Or a tax break for financing https://www.calpfa.org/private-activity-programs/affordable-multifamily-housing-bonds/ https://www.calpfa.org/private-activity-programs/affordable-...
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        DId you read the post?
kevinburke 4y ago
Imagine if there was a law that only permitted the construction of cars that cost over $100,000 per year, and then think about the effects of that on used car prices
Tiktaalik 4y ago
the status quo of barely building any new housing at all also doesn't help the homeless at all

Slighted 4y ago

Alternatives/"solutions" aren't always better than that which they seek to replace or fix and may very well be noticeably worse. Homeless people are an annoyance but so is extremely dense housing to the point that local resources and infrastructure are overloaded. In addition, I'm skeptical that the new housing developments will even resolve the homeless problem, as its not really targeting the root cause of the issue. Most of the homeless aren't keen on helping themselves, either. You'd have more luck shipping them off to coal mines to work than this, I reckon.