6 ms·

Meh, if it's autopilot/FSD all they have to do is share their own internal stats on safety. Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it, and I assume FSD is

Meh, if it's autopilot/FSD all they have to do is share their own internal stats on safety. Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it, and I assume FSD is similar.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
Firstly, you're saying that they need to see Tesla's own internal stats and then making a stats claim about safety, and that doesn't make some much sense to me. I'm wondering how sharing their internal stats will help - the claim is about whether "Tesla had misled investors and customers by making unsupported claims about the capabilities of its driver-assist features" - do you think their internal stats will prove that they thought their grandiose claims were supported by evidence? Otherwise, I don't know how that will help them.
- lttlrck 4y ago
  How many shades of gray are there between this and the Nikola truck demo...
  - camjohnson26 4y ago
    Nikola’s demo was ethical by comparison, at least they had a path.
  - zaroth 4y ago
    Nikola’s model truck drove exactly 0 miles under its own power. There have been more than 3 billion miles worth of real-world driving using AutoPilot.
sidibe 4y ago
Watch any FSD video on YouTube. I hope you are a better driver than that.
rnk 4y ago
They say it's that much safer but the data hasn't been available. They have only said concrete numbers for the number of autopilot beta users. They aren't running as uncrewed taxis like waymo and other companies have been doing. That really suggests they aren't as far along. Tesla will almost certainly have to refund people's money, in part because they keep ratcheting up the hardware requirements and they can't bring all the people along from previous generations of hardware. There's also the issue of claiming funding was secured but it wasn't actually ready apparently, according to the infamous tweet from Musk.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > the data hasn't been available Mercedes leapfrogging Tesla on granting a liability umbrella should seal the case on the latter having a moat in self-driving technology.
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    >the latter having a moat in self-driving technology. I don't think anything will upset the narrative that Tesla is the technology leader until it's completely obvious. Not Mercedes taking liability, not Waymo operating real driverless robotaxis, not independent comparisons of tech, not videos of FSD crashing into fake children, nothing.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      It does not get more obvious than: > Not Mercedes taking liability, not Waymo operating real driverless robotaxis, not independent comparisons of tech, not videos of FSD crashing into fake children, nothing.
  - aeternum 4y ago
    In what world does purchasing a group insurance policy produce a technology moat?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
alistairSH 4y ago
Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it Citation? The only thing remotely close I've seen was comparing apples and orange (Autopilot, mostly highway VS all miles without Autopilot).
itsoktocry 4y ago
>Meh, if it's autopilot/FSD all they have to do is share their own internal stats on safety. Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it, and I assume FSD is similar. For sure! All they have to do is release the data showing just how safe FSD is! ...why have they never done that?
- danjc 4y ago
  You play your trump card as late as possible. Edit: I wasn't being particularly serious, just riffing on the parent comment. That said, there is a long game playing out around FSD.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    You're suggesting holding evidence from an investigation as a strategy? That'll get you into a whole heap of legal trouble. As others has commented, this is not a game.
  - lesuorac 4y ago
    This isn't a game.
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    >You play your trump card as late as possible. How is having the leading tech a "trump card" that you don't tell people about? It's literally the best marketing on the planet, if true. More 6d chess from Elon?
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    > Dr. Strangelove : Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, EH? > Ambassador de Sadesky : It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    What would be the utility in hiding good information from the public? Wouldn't any marketer with a pulse want to demonstrate that their product is good?
cactusplant7374 4y ago
Is this comparing disengagements?
stonogo 4y ago
It doesn't matter how much safer their tech is than unassisted driving. It matters if their tech works as well as they advertised.
danso 4y ago
While the Tesla safety report [0] does compare Teslas with and without Autopilot, and the safety rate does look to be 3-5x better in terms of millions of miles per accident, it's not clear if the stats account for the fact that Autopilot can only be activated in ideal conditions, e.g. highway driving in relatively good weather. In other words, what is the accident rate of non-AP Teslas on highway/freeway only versus the Tesla-AP rate? I'm assuming Tesla doesn't have an easy way to figure out weather at time of accident (of course, wouldn't be hard for a dedicated researcher). But accidents-per-highway-miles only shouldn't be burdensome to calculate and would provide a much more apples-to-apples comparison [0] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Meh, if it's autopilot/FSD all they have to do is share their own internal stats on safety. Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it, and I assume FSD is similar.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

Firstly, you're saying that they need to see Tesla's own internal stats and then making a stats claim about safety, and that doesn't make some much sense to me. I'm wondering how sharing their internal stats will help - the claim is about whether "Tesla had misled investors and customers by making unsupported claims about the capabilities of its driver-assist features" - do you think their internal stats will prove that they thought their grandiose claims were supported by evidence? Otherwise, I don't know how that will help them.

lttlrck 4y ago
How many shades of gray are there between this and the Nikola truck demo...
- camjohnson26 4y ago
  Nikola’s demo was ethical by comparison, at least they had a path.
- zaroth 4y ago
  Nikola’s model truck drove exactly 0 miles under its own power. There have been more than 3 billion miles worth of real-world driving using AutoPilot.

sidibe 4y ago

Watch any FSD video on YouTube. I hope you are a better driver than that.

rnk 4y ago

They say it's that much safer but the data hasn't been available. They have only said concrete numbers for the number of autopilot beta users. They aren't running as uncrewed taxis like waymo and other companies have been doing. That really suggests they aren't as far along. Tesla will almost certainly have to refund people's money, in part because they keep ratcheting up the hardware requirements and they can't bring all the people along from previous generations of hardware. There's also the issue of claiming funding was secured but it wasn't actually ready apparently, according to the infamous tweet from Musk.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the data hasn't been available Mercedes leapfrogging Tesla on granting a liability umbrella should seal the case on the latter having a moat in self-driving technology.
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >the latter having a moat in self-driving technology. I don't think anything will upset the narrative that Tesla is the technology leader until it's completely obvious. Not Mercedes taking liability, not Waymo operating real driverless robotaxis, not independent comparisons of tech, not videos of FSD crashing into fake children, nothing.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    It does not get more obvious than: > Not Mercedes taking liability, not Waymo operating real driverless robotaxis, not independent comparisons of tech, not videos of FSD crashing into fake children, nothing.
- aeternum 4y ago
  In what world does purchasing a group insurance policy produce a technology moat?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago

alistairSH 4y ago

Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it Citation? The only thing remotely close I've seen was comparing apples and orange (Autopilot, mostly highway VS all miles without Autopilot).

itsoktocry 4y ago

>Meh, if it's autopilot/FSD all they have to do is share their own internal stats on safety. Autopilot is 6-7x safer than driving without it, and I assume FSD is similar. For sure! All they have to do is release the data showing just how safe FSD is! ...why have they never done that?

danjc 4y ago
You play your trump card as late as possible. Edit: I wasn't being particularly serious, just riffing on the parent comment. That said, there is a long game playing out around FSD.
- taylodl 4y ago
  You're suggesting holding evidence from an investigation as a strategy? That'll get you into a whole heap of legal trouble. As others has commented, this is not a game.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  This isn't a game.
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >You play your trump card as late as possible. How is having the leading tech a "trump card" that you don't tell people about? It's literally the best marketing on the planet, if true. More 6d chess from Elon?
- rsynnott 4y ago
  > Dr. Strangelove : Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, EH? > Ambassador de Sadesky : It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises.
- kube-system 4y ago
  What would be the utility in hiding good information from the public? Wouldn't any marketer with a pulse want to demonstrate that their product is good?

cactusplant7374 4y ago

Is this comparing disengagements?

stonogo 4y ago

It doesn't matter how much safer their tech is than unassisted driving. It matters if their tech works as well as they advertised.

danso 4y ago

While the Tesla safety report [0] does compare Teslas with and without Autopilot, and the safety rate does look to be 3-5x better in terms of millions of miles per accident, it's not clear if the stats account for the fact that Autopilot can only be activated in ideal conditions, e.g. highway driving in relatively good weather. In other words, what is the accident rate of non-AP Teslas on highway/freeway only versus the Tesla-AP rate? I'm assuming Tesla doesn't have an easy way to figure out weather at time of accident (of course, wouldn't be hard for a dedicated researcher). But accidents-per-highway-miles only shouldn't be burdensome to calculate and would provide a much more apples-to-apples comparison [0] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]