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Until we're all charging our cars overnight.

_ea1k 4y ago
Its expected that the "off peak" might eventually shift to daytime hours in solar heavy areas. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
- strictnein 4y ago
  Off peak in the day in solar heavy areas seems like the worst possible outcome. When power is the most readily available, it'll be used the least. When it's the least available, it'll be used the most.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    I'm not sure how that'd be the worst. It'd just mean that we incentivize mostly addressible loads (eg, car charging) to be done during the afternoon instead of at night. And as others have pointed out, we already have high loads in those hours anyway during the summer.
  - BizarroLand 4y ago
    During the day is when most power is used. AC is a significant energy hog.
ceejayoz 4y ago
The chances of wind for an entire electrical grid dropping to zero is slim. My power company already can ask my Nest to reduce usage during times of high demand; I'd fully expect a smart grid scenario eventually where charging is slowed or paused during dips in available power, and prioritized to less-charged vehicles. We're a pretty innovative species; it baffles me that any discussion of renewables quickly trends towards "this issue is insurmountable" style wailing.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Except 2021, where whole Europe had low winds for almost a year. But let's ignore that. https://theconversation.com/what-europes-exceptionally-low-winds-mean-for-the-future-energy-grid-170135 https://theconversation.com/what-europes-exceptionally-low-w...
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > For instance, UK-based power company SSE stated that its renewable assets produced 32% less power than expected. Although this may appear initially alarming, given the UK government’s plans to become a world leader in wind energy, wind farm developers are aware these low wind “events” are possible, and understanding their impact has become a hot topic in energy-meteorology research. > So should we be worried about this period of low wind? In short, no.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    And in 2022. But that didn't stop wind and solar from picking up 5/6ths of the shortfall from hydro, nuclear, and gas. It's unfortunate that coal picked up the last 6th. Pity money was spent on building gas and nuclear instead of wind and solar.
ben_w 4y ago
Why would we be charging them at night if we have PV everywhere? Only makes sense to do that at night when you're overproducing at night and thus making it cheaper then. PV everywhere reversed that, making it cheapest to charge during the day.
- strictnein 4y ago
  Not sure what the location of solar panels has to do with charging cars, to be honest. The point is that people will mainly charge their cars at their homes in the evening, when solar power is low/non-existent. You're not charging them during the day because you're using them.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    60kWh of battery per car: Inevitable Someone wanting to charge with 2c/kWh power during the day rather than 20c/kWh at night: Inconceivable! 70kWh of battery per car with 10kWh at the solar panels: Impossible! A 20A AC extension cord at work: Inconceivable!
    - strictnein 4y ago
      Yes, I clearly claimed all of those things. Being snarky isn't the same as being clever, but I'm sure you've convinced yourself otherwise.
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        And repeating tired lies is much less clever than pointing out the implied impossibilities, but I'm sure you've convinced yourself otherwise.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > Not sure what the location of solar panels has to do with charging cars, to be honest. > You're not charging them during the day because you're using them. "Everywhere" includes "on the cars" (covering 80% of mean usage because most people aren't commercial drivers) and "car parks" (because even commercial drivers take breaks, or at least that's my understanding of the law in various places).

Its expected that the "off peak" might eventually shift to daytime hours in solar heavy areas. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

strictnein 4y ago
Off peak in the day in solar heavy areas seems like the worst possible outcome. When power is the most readily available, it'll be used the least. When it's the least available, it'll be used the most.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  I'm not sure how that'd be the worst. It'd just mean that we incentivize mostly addressible loads (eg, car charging) to be done during the afternoon instead of at night. And as others have pointed out, we already have high loads in those hours anyway during the summer.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  During the day is when most power is used. AC is a significant energy hog.

ceejayoz 4y ago

The chances of wind for an entire electrical grid dropping to zero is slim. My power company already can ask my Nest to reduce usage during times of high demand; I'd fully expect a smart grid scenario eventually where charging is slowed or paused during dips in available power, and prioritized to less-charged vehicles. We're a pretty innovative species; it baffles me that any discussion of renewables quickly trends towards "this issue is insurmountable" style wailing.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Except 2021, where whole Europe had low winds for almost a year. But let's ignore that. https://theconversation.com/what-europes-exceptionally-low-winds-mean-for-the-future-energy-grid-170135 https://theconversation.com/what-europes-exceptionally-low-w...
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > For instance, UK-based power company SSE stated that its renewable assets produced 32% less power than expected. Although this may appear initially alarming, given the UK government’s plans to become a world leader in wind energy, wind farm developers are aware these low wind “events” are possible, and understanding their impact has become a hot topic in energy-meteorology research. > So should we be worried about this period of low wind? In short, no.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  And in 2022. But that didn't stop wind and solar from picking up 5/6ths of the shortfall from hydro, nuclear, and gas. It's unfortunate that coal picked up the last 6th. Pity money was spent on building gas and nuclear instead of wind and solar.

ben_w 4y ago

Why would we be charging them at night if we have PV everywhere? Only makes sense to do that at night when you're overproducing at night and thus making it cheaper then. PV everywhere reversed that, making it cheapest to charge during the day.

strictnein 4y ago
Not sure what the location of solar panels has to do with charging cars, to be honest. The point is that people will mainly charge their cars at their homes in the evening, when solar power is low/non-existent. You're not charging them during the day because you're using them.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  60kWh of battery per car: Inevitable Someone wanting to charge with 2c/kWh power during the day rather than 20c/kWh at night: Inconceivable! 70kWh of battery per car with 10kWh at the solar panels: Impossible! A 20A AC extension cord at work: Inconceivable!
  - strictnein 4y ago
    Yes, I clearly claimed all of those things. Being snarky isn't the same as being clever, but I'm sure you've convinced yourself otherwise.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      And repeating tired lies is much less clever than pointing out the implied impossibilities, but I'm sure you've convinced yourself otherwise.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > Not sure what the location of solar panels has to do with charging cars, to be honest. > You're not charging them during the day because you're using them. "Everywhere" includes "on the cars" (covering 80% of mean usage because most people aren't commercial drivers) and "car parks" (because even commercial drivers take breaks, or at least that's my understanding of the law in various places).