8 ms·

Becoming the first DevRel at Tailscale

54 points by nivethan 4y ago

latchkey 4y ago
This (arguably clickbait title) blog post sounds like what they shared with their manager in order to justify their position... "I started working on Developer Relations (DevRel) at Tailscale in Spring 2022." "In Spring 2022, I sat down and started to take DevRel seriously at Tailscale. I had heard about the practice in the past, but I had never done it before." "I got permission from my manager to get a 50/50 split between what I was doing (work on internal tooling that was not sparking joy) and this new experimental DevRel thing." Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted. To be clear, I'm not trying to attack the person... it isn't about proving the individual's work. I'm sure they are a great contributor. What I'm questioning is the need to publish this on the tailscale website, it is something I'd expect on a personal blog. I'm questioning the clickbait title.
- kristoff_it 4y ago
  This comment seems dismissive in a very unfair way, but to give you an actual piece of information, it's extremely hard for DevRel to justify its existence in most companies. It's a necessary role, and one that can be thoroughly positive for all the parties involved (devs, the product, the company), but managers who are unable to understand intuitively what good DevRel looks like will always try to push for metrics that will inherently destroy any attempt at doing good DevRel. So, well, even if this was something shared to convince a manager (hard doubt on that btw), it would still be vaulable, unless you want a bunch of marketers with IT expertise to speak at events.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    No, it isn't dismissive. "weaponizing hyperfocus" is about as clickbait as it gets. It seems like a rambling blog post without much editing. You're making a few absolute statements but not providing anything to back that up. If the role is necessary, then it would be a lot easier to justify. If it is hard to write a job req for the role, then I'd question the need for a role.
    - JeremyBanks 4y ago
      [dead]
    - pxc 4y ago
      > "weaponizing hyperfocus" is about as clickbait as it gets How so? What do you understand hyperfocus to be? Are you subject to it?
      - latchkey 4y ago
        Let's just say, a moderator edited the title here on HN...
        pxc 4y ago
        I saw the original title and I still don't understand why you think it's clickbait. It makes perfect sense to me. One of the attention regulation difficulties with ADHD is a tendency to get sucked down deep rabbit holes, and it can be extremely derailing in terms of productivity, and then consequently for morale. It's difficult to predict and often impossible to control. In Xe's case, they figured out a way to turn the results of those unexpected, unwelcome trips into something of recognized value. Settling into this role likely provides relief from a periodic feeling of helplessness and self-loathing. How is the original title inappropriate? How is it unclear what the article is about or why it matters?
        latchkey 4y ago
        Personally speaking, I'd remove the word 'weaponizing', it is the unnecessary catchy bit and distracts from the more important ADHD portion of 'hyperfocus'. That said, the rather rambling aspect of the blog post itself doesn't convey hyperfocus at all to me. That said, the way the title is now, seems most appropriate, it is simple and conveys the content of the post. I see that the blog post on the tailscale website is also marked as 'personal'... and I'd argue that a corporate website isn't the appropriate place for a blog post like this. It is the first post marked as such, so maybe it is an experiment to see how it goes. I'm all for that, but this seems like a big miss to me personally.
- Kiro 4y ago
  I don't think Xe needs to prove themselves: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=xeiaso.net https://hn.algolia.com/?q=xeiaso.net
  - swyx 4y ago
    i had never come across Xe prior to this. is there a canonical About link for what they do (and also why the interesting internet name)
    - ergonaught 4y ago
      Click the author's name. Or click the author's link to the blog. Read, read, read.
    - xg15 4y ago
      I'd like to know this as well. Nothing against them or their articles, they are usually interesting and well-written - but I did wonder why they show up on the frontpage so often. (They are a few other authors like that, like rachelbythebay). The articles are good, but I don't think the findings are substantially more unique than what probably many other people in tech are experiencing. I don't think there is some big conspiracy behind it, but I wonder if it might be the result of some algorithmic feedback loop: The system knows those sources as valuable, so posts reach the frontpage often, so people upvote them often, so the system registers them as even more valuable, etc... That or there is some bit of HN lore that I don't know. In which case I would be interested in learning :)
      - nivethan 4y ago
        Both Rachel and Xe are people that get at the heart of things. Many of the ideas I’ve had they can put out in words. I think a couple other people that fall into this are Julia Evans and Dan Luu. I think they are HN sweethearts because they verbalize much of what we think rather than saying something new.
      - groby_b 4y ago
        Alternate explanation: Xe, Rachel, and quite a few other people (patio11? tptacek?) have been at this a while, have worked with a lot of people, and have consistently put out high quality content. They put in the time to build an audience. It's not that "the system" knows them as valuable, it's that people have gotten to know them over time and trust them. These are people, for me, whose articles I'll always make time for. I suspect a lot of HNers feel similar, so that's a lot of upvotes, so that's a lot of frontpage hits.
- ergonaught 4y ago
  I'm not voting you one way or another, but I am questioning your kneejerk allocation of "clickbait". > [...] how working on DevRel has transformed a part of me from being an impediment that I was at war with into a catalytic asset that makes my job easier. > In the process of doing this, I also had a unique opportunity to weaponize something that had previously been a horrible vice: my tendency to hyperfocus on things. This tendency has been my savior and my jailor for most of my professional career. These are from the article itself. Learning to make hyperfocus something powerful and useful is the whole theme of the post. In what sense can the title be considered "clickbait"? If you meant, "Not the most professional marketingspeak ever utilized", then I don't believe that's what "clickbait" means.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    I'm so confused now, what is a "kneejerk allocation"? I said "arguably clickbait". I don't see how that relates.
- skullone 4y ago
  There are a lot of words on this blogpost (is this is a blogpost? Or some company announcement?). I'm not sure what any of it means, the person sounds unhappy with their job (even says their job did not bring them joy!). Seems really odd to write all this stuff about... finding a different role in a company? And whats all this waifu stuff? Is this a trend I've missed?
  - badcppdev 4y ago
    I believe the use of a Waifu, link to personal blog, inclusion of personal information, etc are indicators that this post is part of the trend where people of a diverse nature[0] contribute to a business in a manner that is different to traditional ways favoured by less diverse types. It's good to be exposed to different people in the world. [0] I think Xe has indicated that they are a non-binary identifying member of the LGBTQ+ community who has ADHD so I think that counts as diverse. Hoping someone can tell me if the fact that Xe uses animals as avatars indicates something as well.
- musha68k 4y ago
  When did you last share something that helped or at least resonated with a lot of people? Consistently and interestingly? To be clear, I'm not trying to attack you but this comment sounds like it's from someone who is trying to justify their probably less envious position. I honestly hope that's not the case of course. Just remember Master Yoda's words: If Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny. May the Force Be with You.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > When did you last share something that helped or at least resonated with a lot of people? Consistently and interestingly? I've been a fairly large open source developer for 20+ years. It is likely that you use either software I wrote or had a hand in, every single day. > I'm not trying to attack you but this comment sounds like it's from someone who is trying to justify their probably less envious position. I'm not trying to attack you, but let me attack you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - musha68k 4y ago
      I was just trying to mirror your exact words there. Thanks for the open source work, I guess Yoda would feel like that's offsetting karma (to some extent)?
      - latchkey 4y ago
        My words were not a personal attack.
- adamgordonbell 4y ago
  > What I'm questioning is the need to publish this on the tailscale website, it is something I'd expect on a personal blog. I for one would like corporate blogs to be closer to personal blogs. Maybe DevRel can include just talking to developers like a normal person.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > I for one would like corporate blogs to be closer to personal blogs. Please, no. Corporations are made up of people, but are not people. I can't imagine in 1000 years reading this on IBM's website.
    - eatonphil 4y ago
      Counterpoint: Microsoft dev blogs. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/
      - latchkey 4y ago
        Seems like a poor example as these are technical, not personal posts. I don't see Raymond talking about his personal experiences at all.
        eatonphil 4y ago
        Au contraire, check out his post tags at the bottom: * Code * History * Tips/Support * Other * Non-Computer Here's the non-computer category for you: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/tag/non-computer https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/tag/non-computer.
        latchkey 4y ago
        Ok, so 1 out of 221,000, who's been at it for 20 years. I see what you did there.
- xena 4y ago
  Speaking as the author of the article, when I wrote this my original outline actually phrased it in terms of alchemy (occult sense) to transmute a part of me that I had come to hate into a fundamental advantage that can set me apart from others. As I was drafting things, I gradually filed the serial numbers off of the alchemy and I ended up picking "weaponizing hyperfocus" as a more memorable term than "transmuting a source of pain to a source of joy". I was going to put this on my own website but the other people on the DevRel team asked me to make it the first post on tailscale.dev. So I made it the first post on tailscale.dev. I will take your feedback into account to improve future writing.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    Thank you for the clarification. I think that "transmuting a source of pain to a source of joy" is a very descriptive and wonderful title. It humanizes things in a way that is not aggressive like the word 'weaponizing' is.
citruscomputing 4y ago
Great article. Glad xe's figured out a role that works well for xerself. I struggle with this. I manage at least the expected baseline (for my skill level, averaged over time), but sometimes simple tasks feel like molasses because my brain decided it's not what it wants to work on. This is so immensely frustrating, and the self-recrimination keeps me there. (To an astonishing degree, programming requires emotional skills. I did not realize this until the past few years.) Sometimes everything clicks and it's fantastic, I get a week's worth of work done in a day. I don't have control over it, and it's terrifying because when I'm in a slump I have no idea when I'll get back out again. But it better be soon, or people are going to start asking questions! Trying to reconcile ADHD with the expected mode of production feels futile. Cool to see there are jobs that align better. Gonna think about what this means for my future.
- RangerScience 4y ago
  :wave: I recognize your internal experience! I resisted ADD meds for a long time, but now I'm taking them and it's great. Current favorite way to describe it wold be that it turns all those simple tasks into cantrips, so they don't take any spoons.
- xwolfi 4y ago
  Why the xe? Why not use neutral they, polite she or dominant he ? Is xe representing more than "they"?
  - selectodude 4y ago
    ...the author's name is literally Xe.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - sp332 4y ago
    I didn't see it anywhere else, but https://github.com/Xe https://github.com/Xe does request: "Please call me (order of preference): Xe/xer, They/them or She/her please."
ketzo 4y ago
One of the things I love most about working in tech is that really talented, weird, multi-disciplinary people like Xe are often given the freedom to just go do weird shit and see if it works out for the company -- and that it often does, in surprising and amazing ways.
- claytonjy 4y ago
  I also love this about tech, but can't help but feel this is less and less true as time goes on. Plenty of weirdos still in tech, but they make up a much smaller percentage of the tech population than they used to. The weirdos that are here don't feel as comfortable being weird as they used to. I knew a lot of actually-weird weirdos at my first tech job a decade ago; my coworkers since have been rather less weird on average. Props to Tailscale for encouraging/allowing Xe to be themselves in a mutually-beneficial way.

54 points by nivethan 4y ago

This (arguably clickbait title) blog post sounds like what they shared with their manager in order to justify their position... "I started working on Developer Relations (DevRel) at Tailscale in Spring 2022." "In Spring 2022, I sat down and started to take DevRel seriously at Tailscale. I had heard about the practice in the past, but I had never done it before." "I got permission from my manager to get a 50/50 split between what I was doing (work on internal tooling that was not sparking joy) and this new experimental DevRel thing." Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted. To be clear, I'm not trying to attack the person... it isn't about proving the individual's work. I'm sure they are a great contributor. What I'm questioning is the need to publish this on the tailscale website, it is something I'd expect on a personal blog. I'm questioning the clickbait title.

kristoff_it 4y ago
This comment seems dismissive in a very unfair way, but to give you an actual piece of information, it's extremely hard for DevRel to justify its existence in most companies. It's a necessary role, and one that can be thoroughly positive for all the parties involved (devs, the product, the company), but managers who are unable to understand intuitively what good DevRel looks like will always try to push for metrics that will inherently destroy any attempt at doing good DevRel. So, well, even if this was something shared to convince a manager (hard doubt on that btw), it would still be vaulable, unless you want a bunch of marketers with IT expertise to speak at events.
- latchkey 4y ago
  No, it isn't dismissive. "weaponizing hyperfocus" is about as clickbait as it gets. It seems like a rambling blog post without much editing. You're making a few absolute statements but not providing anything to back that up. If the role is necessary, then it would be a lot easier to justify. If it is hard to write a job req for the role, then I'd question the need for a role.
  - JeremyBanks 4y ago
    [dead]
  - pxc 4y ago
    > "weaponizing hyperfocus" is about as clickbait as it gets How so? What do you understand hyperfocus to be? Are you subject to it?
    - latchkey 4y ago
      Let's just say, a moderator edited the title here on HN...
      - pxc 4y ago
        I saw the original title and I still don't understand why you think it's clickbait. It makes perfect sense to me. One of the attention regulation difficulties with ADHD is a tendency to get sucked down deep rabbit holes, and it can be extremely derailing in terms of productivity, and then consequently for morale. It's difficult to predict and often impossible to control. In Xe's case, they figured out a way to turn the results of those unexpected, unwelcome trips into something of recognized value. Settling into this role likely provides relief from a periodic feeling of helplessness and self-loathing. How is the original title inappropriate? How is it unclear what the article is about or why it matters?
        latchkey 4y ago
        Personally speaking, I'd remove the word 'weaponizing', it is the unnecessary catchy bit and distracts from the more important ADHD portion of 'hyperfocus'. That said, the rather rambling aspect of the blog post itself doesn't convey hyperfocus at all to me. That said, the way the title is now, seems most appropriate, it is simple and conveys the content of the post. I see that the blog post on the tailscale website is also marked as 'personal'... and I'd argue that a corporate website isn't the appropriate place for a blog post like this. It is the first post marked as such, so maybe it is an experiment to see how it goes. I'm all for that, but this seems like a big miss to me personally.
Kiro 4y ago
I don't think Xe needs to prove themselves: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=xeiaso.net https://hn.algolia.com/?q=xeiaso.net
- swyx 4y ago
  i had never come across Xe prior to this. is there a canonical About link for what they do (and also why the interesting internet name)
  - ergonaught 4y ago
    Click the author's name. Or click the author's link to the blog. Read, read, read.
  - xg15 4y ago
    I'd like to know this as well. Nothing against them or their articles, they are usually interesting and well-written - but I did wonder why they show up on the frontpage so often. (They are a few other authors like that, like rachelbythebay). The articles are good, but I don't think the findings are substantially more unique than what probably many other people in tech are experiencing. I don't think there is some big conspiracy behind it, but I wonder if it might be the result of some algorithmic feedback loop: The system knows those sources as valuable, so posts reach the frontpage often, so people upvote them often, so the system registers them as even more valuable, etc... That or there is some bit of HN lore that I don't know. In which case I would be interested in learning :)
    - nivethan 4y ago
      Both Rachel and Xe are people that get at the heart of things. Many of the ideas I’ve had they can put out in words. I think a couple other people that fall into this are Julia Evans and Dan Luu. I think they are HN sweethearts because they verbalize much of what we think rather than saying something new.
    - groby_b 4y ago
      Alternate explanation: Xe, Rachel, and quite a few other people (patio11? tptacek?) have been at this a while, have worked with a lot of people, and have consistently put out high quality content. They put in the time to build an audience. It's not that "the system" knows them as valuable, it's that people have gotten to know them over time and trust them. These are people, for me, whose articles I'll always make time for. I suspect a lot of HNers feel similar, so that's a lot of upvotes, so that's a lot of frontpage hits.
ergonaught 4y ago
I'm not voting you one way or another, but I am questioning your kneejerk allocation of "clickbait". > [...] how working on DevRel has transformed a part of me from being an impediment that I was at war with into a catalytic asset that makes my job easier. > In the process of doing this, I also had a unique opportunity to weaponize something that had previously been a horrible vice: my tendency to hyperfocus on things. This tendency has been my savior and my jailor for most of my professional career. These are from the article itself. Learning to make hyperfocus something powerful and useful is the whole theme of the post. In what sense can the title be considered "clickbait"? If you meant, "Not the most professional marketingspeak ever utilized", then I don't believe that's what "clickbait" means.
- latchkey 4y ago
  I'm so confused now, what is a "kneejerk allocation"? I said "arguably clickbait". I don't see how that relates.
skullone 4y ago
There are a lot of words on this blogpost (is this is a blogpost? Or some company announcement?). I'm not sure what any of it means, the person sounds unhappy with their job (even says their job did not bring them joy!). Seems really odd to write all this stuff about... finding a different role in a company? And whats all this waifu stuff? Is this a trend I've missed?
- badcppdev 4y ago
  I believe the use of a Waifu, link to personal blog, inclusion of personal information, etc are indicators that this post is part of the trend where people of a diverse nature[0] contribute to a business in a manner that is different to traditional ways favoured by less diverse types. It's good to be exposed to different people in the world. [0] I think Xe has indicated that they are a non-binary identifying member of the LGBTQ+ community who has ADHD so I think that counts as diverse. Hoping someone can tell me if the fact that Xe uses animals as avatars indicates something as well.
musha68k 4y ago
When did you last share something that helped or at least resonated with a lot of people? Consistently and interestingly? To be clear, I'm not trying to attack you but this comment sounds like it's from someone who is trying to justify their probably less envious position. I honestly hope that's not the case of course. Just remember Master Yoda's words: If Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny. May the Force Be with You.
- latchkey 4y ago
  > When did you last share something that helped or at least resonated with a lot of people? Consistently and interestingly? I've been a fairly large open source developer for 20+ years. It is likely that you use either software I wrote or had a hand in, every single day. > I'm not trying to attack you but this comment sounds like it's from someone who is trying to justify their probably less envious position. I'm not trying to attack you, but let me attack you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - musha68k 4y ago
    I was just trying to mirror your exact words there. Thanks for the open source work, I guess Yoda would feel like that's offsetting karma (to some extent)?
    - latchkey 4y ago
      My words were not a personal attack.
adamgordonbell 4y ago
> What I'm questioning is the need to publish this on the tailscale website, it is something I'd expect on a personal blog. I for one would like corporate blogs to be closer to personal blogs. Maybe DevRel can include just talking to developers like a normal person.
- latchkey 4y ago
  > I for one would like corporate blogs to be closer to personal blogs. Please, no. Corporations are made up of people, but are not people. I can't imagine in 1000 years reading this on IBM's website.
  - eatonphil 4y ago
    Counterpoint: Microsoft dev blogs. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/
    - latchkey 4y ago
      Seems like a poor example as these are technical, not personal posts. I don't see Raymond talking about his personal experiences at all.
      - eatonphil 4y ago
        Au contraire, check out his post tags at the bottom: * Code * History * Tips/Support * Other * Non-Computer Here's the non-computer category for you: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/tag/non-computer https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/tag/non-computer.
        latchkey 4y ago
        Ok, so 1 out of 221,000, who's been at it for 20 years. I see what you did there.
xena 4y ago
Speaking as the author of the article, when I wrote this my original outline actually phrased it in terms of alchemy (occult sense) to transmute a part of me that I had come to hate into a fundamental advantage that can set me apart from others. As I was drafting things, I gradually filed the serial numbers off of the alchemy and I ended up picking "weaponizing hyperfocus" as a more memorable term than "transmuting a source of pain to a source of joy". I was going to put this on my own website but the other people on the DevRel team asked me to make it the first post on tailscale.dev. So I made it the first post on tailscale.dev. I will take your feedback into account to improve future writing.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Thank you for the clarification. I think that "transmuting a source of pain to a source of joy" is a very descriptive and wonderful title. It humanizes things in a way that is not aggressive like the word 'weaponizing' is.

citruscomputing 4y ago

Great article. Glad xe's figured out a role that works well for xerself. I struggle with this. I manage at least the expected baseline (for my skill level, averaged over time), but sometimes simple tasks feel like molasses because my brain decided it's not what it wants to work on. This is so immensely frustrating, and the self-recrimination keeps me there. (To an astonishing degree, programming requires emotional skills. I did not realize this until the past few years.) Sometimes everything clicks and it's fantastic, I get a week's worth of work done in a day. I don't have control over it, and it's terrifying because when I'm in a slump I have no idea when I'll get back out again. But it better be soon, or people are going to start asking questions! Trying to reconcile ADHD with the expected mode of production feels futile. Cool to see there are jobs that align better. Gonna think about what this means for my future.

RangerScience 4y ago
:wave: I recognize your internal experience! I resisted ADD meds for a long time, but now I'm taking them and it's great. Current favorite way to describe it wold be that it turns all those simple tasks into cantrips, so they don't take any spoons.
xwolfi 4y ago
Why the xe? Why not use neutral they, polite she or dominant he ? Is xe representing more than "they"?
- selectodude 4y ago
  ...the author's name is literally Xe.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- sp332 4y ago
  I didn't see it anywhere else, but https://github.com/Xe https://github.com/Xe does request: "Please call me (order of preference): Xe/xer, They/them or She/her please."

ketzo 4y ago

One of the things I love most about working in tech is that really talented, weird, multi-disciplinary people like Xe are often given the freedom to just go do weird shit and see if it works out for the company -- and that it often does, in surprising and amazing ways.

claytonjy 4y ago
I also love this about tech, but can't help but feel this is less and less true as time goes on. Plenty of weirdos still in tech, but they make up a much smaller percentage of the tech population than they used to. The weirdos that are here don't feel as comfortable being weird as they used to. I knew a lot of actually-weird weirdos at my first tech job a decade ago; my coworkers since have been rather less weird on average. Props to Tailscale for encouraging/allowing Xe to be themselves in a mutually-beneficial way.