4 ms·

We have a Volkswagen e-Up, and I'm convinced it's the perfect EV. It's small and light(about 1000kg total), but not so small to be impractical - it fits a full

We have a Volkswagen e-Up, and I'm convinced it's the perfect EV. It's small and light(about 1000kg total), but not so small to be impractical - it fits a full size baby seat and a full size pram, I've done Costco and DIY store runs with it, it carried planks of wood and bags of soil....like any normal car would. Yes the 150 mile range is not going to win any contests, but you know what - I've literally never been close to running out. I can do the school run in the morning, commute to work, go shopping, go see friends, and still only need to charge it every few days at most - and when I do i just plug it in at home and it charges overnight, ready and fully charged by the morning. And it does 5-6 miles per kWh which is insane, it beats even the most optimistic numbers on a Tesla. And full charge costs me £2.5 at home - about the same as two litres of petrol. Would I do a cross country trip in one of these? Obviously not(although you could, it does support CCS rapid charging), but if I had to....I'd just rent a different car to do that in for few days? Seriously the need for that comes up maybe twice a year for me - so why would I need a massive 2.5 tonne EV with a 100kWh battery , like every other manufacturer seems to be so keen on delivering as their EV solution? Obviously, before someone replies "well this wouldn't work for me" - yes I know. But I'd wager that for an awful lot of people this exact kind of car would work perfectly fine.

olabyne 4y ago
That is still a normal car, although very compact. Plus at 1000kg it is still more heavy than most of the petrol city cars we have in Europe. The article is about smaller cars, that are sometimes not even 'cars' when it comes to regulation. We are speaking of Citroen Ami, Renault Twizzy, Microlino ... EVs around 500kg.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Yeah I'm aware, sorry - I just meant to say that it presents a compelling EV alternative to 2 tonne+ EVs that seem to be the predominant option now, because everyone expects 300 miles of range from their car even if they practically never need it. (Also yes, petrol city cars are lighter, but not that much lighter - a Citroen C1 clocks in at 815kg for example)
  - tromp 4y ago
    And this LUV is less than half of that at 400kg, or 2.5x lighter than the VW Up!, while costing only about half of the latter. And at 10miles per KwH, it is way more efficient too, as efficient as the Aptera (despite having a vastly larger aerodynamic drag coefficient from the look of it).
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Very true - I really don't have anything else to say other than agree.
- logifail 4y ago
  > That is still a normal car, although very compact We have a VW Up, but it's the ICE (petrol) version. It's a great car for up to four people. EDIT: (just been out and checked the paperwork, it weighs in at ~900kg) It's around four years old and we've done around 36k miles. It cost just under $11k new, everything included (although they're now $15k and you'd better be quick, VW are discontinuing them this year). The e-Up has already been discontinued. It's a fantastic car, it's easy to park, easy to drive, really economical. We looked at the e-Up, but it was significantly more than twice as expensive compared to the petrol version, with a massively reduced range. I'd love to have had enough "spare money" to have picked the e-Up instead of the ICE version, but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option. Where do we go from here?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>The e-Up has already been discontinued. I don't think it has, at least here in UK the dealers were told to stop taking new orders because they have enough to see them until the end of 2023, but Volkswagen has confirmed they will continue making the e-Up at least until the ID.1 arrives and replaces it. >>but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option. So maybe we just lucked out, but we got ours on a lease deal, £199/month with no upfront cost. The petrol version was marginally cheaper at £149/month or something like that - the difference is easily made up in the savings on petrol and maintenance. Of course it means we will never fully own it, but at that cost it beat pretty much any other option available on the market.
    - logifail 4y ago
      > I don't think it has, at least here in UK the dealers were told to stop taking new orders because they have enough to see them until the end of 2023, but Volkswagen has confirmed they will continue making the e-Up at least until the ID.1 arrives and replaces it Ah, I've just done more research and you're right, it seems the e-Up has made a comeback, although the list price has jumped to EUR30k/GBP26.5k/USD32.5k. Back when I first saw it the list price was EUR23k > we got ours on a lease deal, £199/month with no upfront cost. The petrol version was marginally cheaper at £149/month or something like that - the difference is easily made up in the savings on petrol and maintenance If we'd had that option I'd have chosen the e-Up in a heartbeat! Well done :)
- WirelessGigabit 4y ago
  Wow, has it gone down that much in Europe? My BMW 120d was still 1,400kg.
raphaelj 4y ago
The emergence of decent car sharing networks makes it even more cost-effective. Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost?
- tuatoru 4y ago
  Why indeed? Other people, and a lot more of them than you might think, need that range many times a year. People with elderly parents in a town 400 miles away, for instance. People with children, ditto. People who travel for work in their own vehicle. I very much doubt the 30 seconds. Maybe booking it, but 30 seconds to driving away? Never.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    The question was why would they who only need this range twice a year, own a 100kWh vehicle. If you need this range "many times a year" then obviously this comment(and this car) wasn't aimed at you.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost? I just rented a vehicle today (for next week, flying somewhere and need a car while I am there). The cost to rent the cheapest car on offer is less than half the cost to rent a stationwagon. A 3 day rental (after I shopped around at 5 different providers at the airport) with limited mileage is about the same as the monthly repayment of that same vehicle, and the insurance excess is not borne by the rental company if I get into an accident or the car is stolen. It most definitely is not 1/20th the annual cost of the vehicle[1], if you need to go away for the weekend. [1] The cost is much greater if you want to travel a large distance, because unlimited miles almost doubles the cost.
CodexArcana 4y ago
I live and work in the same town. I have a 5 minute drive. Our town has basically everything we need. I'd drive the shit out of a car like this. It wouldn't matter if it has range. We'll probably have 2 cars until the kids are out of the house, so even if one of them is electric that's better than nothing.
- petre 4y ago
  A 5 minute drive is a 10 minute e-bike commute.
  - bitschubser_ 4y ago
    in my case (also commuting within the city) a 14minute no traffic car drive is a 8minute (cycle expressways) ebike commute, it can also be the other way around :) heck, even with no traffic i'm often faster by bike nearly everywhere in the city
    - petre 4y ago
      Yes, it usually turns into 2x by car in a high traffic scenario here as well. My commute is 7 minutes by car or 15 minutes by bike (the regular type, not an e-bike). It includes a hill with about 100 meters of climbing but then you get to go downhill during the return trip. One of my colleagues doesn't own a car, has a longer commute and does it entirely by bicycle for most of the year.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > A 5 minute drive is a 10 minute e-bike commute. But 5 minutes in the dry is not the same as 10 minutes in the rain.
    - petre 4y ago
      The get lots of rain in the Nederlands and somehow they seem to manage just fine. Mudguards fix 60% of the rain issue, the rest is done by a raincoat.
petre 4y ago
1000 kg is still too heavy. Think of body frame for Smart Fourtwo vehicle but with 4 seats and made from bonded aluminium. Add plastic panels and you get a lighter vehicle.

olabyne 4y ago

That is still a normal car, although very compact. Plus at 1000kg it is still more heavy than most of the petrol city cars we have in Europe. The article is about smaller cars, that are sometimes not even 'cars' when it comes to regulation. We are speaking of Citroen Ami, Renault Twizzy, Microlino ... EVs around 500kg.

gambiting 4y ago
Yeah I'm aware, sorry - I just meant to say that it presents a compelling EV alternative to 2 tonne+ EVs that seem to be the predominant option now, because everyone expects 300 miles of range from their car even if they practically never need it. (Also yes, petrol city cars are lighter, but not that much lighter - a Citroen C1 clocks in at 815kg for example)
- tromp 4y ago
  And this LUV is less than half of that at 400kg, or 2.5x lighter than the VW Up!, while costing only about half of the latter. And at 10miles per KwH, it is way more efficient too, as efficient as the Aptera (despite having a vastly larger aerodynamic drag coefficient from the look of it).
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Very true - I really don't have anything else to say other than agree.
logifail 4y ago
> That is still a normal car, although very compact We have a VW Up, but it's the ICE (petrol) version. It's a great car for up to four people. EDIT: (just been out and checked the paperwork, it weighs in at ~900kg) It's around four years old and we've done around 36k miles. It cost just under $11k new, everything included (although they're now $15k and you'd better be quick, VW are discontinuing them this year). The e-Up has already been discontinued. It's a fantastic car, it's easy to park, easy to drive, really economical. We looked at the e-Up, but it was significantly more than twice as expensive compared to the petrol version, with a massively reduced range. I'd love to have had enough "spare money" to have picked the e-Up instead of the ICE version, but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option. Where do we go from here?
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>The e-Up has already been discontinued. I don't think it has, at least here in UK the dealers were told to stop taking new orders because they have enough to see them until the end of 2023, but Volkswagen has confirmed they will continue making the e-Up at least until the ID.1 arrives and replaces it. >>but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option. So maybe we just lucked out, but we got ours on a lease deal, £199/month with no upfront cost. The petrol version was marginally cheaper at £149/month or something like that - the difference is easily made up in the savings on petrol and maintenance. Of course it means we will never fully own it, but at that cost it beat pretty much any other option available on the market.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > I don't think it has, at least here in UK the dealers were told to stop taking new orders because they have enough to see them until the end of 2023, but Volkswagen has confirmed they will continue making the e-Up at least until the ID.1 arrives and replaces it Ah, I've just done more research and you're right, it seems the e-Up has made a comeback, although the list price has jumped to EUR30k/GBP26.5k/USD32.5k. Back when I first saw it the list price was EUR23k > we got ours on a lease deal, £199/month with no upfront cost. The petrol version was marginally cheaper at £149/month or something like that - the difference is easily made up in the savings on petrol and maintenance If we'd had that option I'd have chosen the e-Up in a heartbeat! Well done :)
WirelessGigabit 4y ago
Wow, has it gone down that much in Europe? My BMW 120d was still 1,400kg.

raphaelj 4y ago

The emergence of decent car sharing networks makes it even more cost-effective. Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost?

tuatoru 4y ago
Why indeed? Other people, and a lot more of them than you might think, need that range many times a year. People with elderly parents in a town 400 miles away, for instance. People with children, ditto. People who travel for work in their own vehicle. I very much doubt the 30 seconds. Maybe booking it, but 30 seconds to driving away? Never.
- gambiting 4y ago
  The question was why would they who only need this range twice a year, own a 100kWh vehicle. If you need this range "many times a year" then obviously this comment(and this car) wasn't aimed at you.
lelanthran 4y ago
> Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost? I just rented a vehicle today (for next week, flying somewhere and need a car while I am there). The cost to rent the cheapest car on offer is less than half the cost to rent a stationwagon. A 3 day rental (after I shopped around at 5 different providers at the airport) with limited mileage is about the same as the monthly repayment of that same vehicle, and the insurance excess is not borne by the rental company if I get into an accident or the car is stolen. It most definitely is not 1/20th the annual cost of the vehicle[1], if you need to go away for the weekend. [1] The cost is much greater if you want to travel a large distance, because unlimited miles almost doubles the cost.

CodexArcana 4y ago

I live and work in the same town. I have a 5 minute drive. Our town has basically everything we need. I'd drive the shit out of a car like this. It wouldn't matter if it has range. We'll probably have 2 cars until the kids are out of the house, so even if one of them is electric that's better than nothing.

petre 4y ago
A 5 minute drive is a 10 minute e-bike commute.
- bitschubser_ 4y ago
  in my case (also commuting within the city) a 14minute no traffic car drive is a 8minute (cycle expressways) ebike commute, it can also be the other way around :) heck, even with no traffic i'm often faster by bike nearly everywhere in the city
  - petre 4y ago
    Yes, it usually turns into 2x by car in a high traffic scenario here as well. My commute is 7 minutes by car or 15 minutes by bike (the regular type, not an e-bike). It includes a hill with about 100 meters of climbing but then you get to go downhill during the return trip. One of my colleagues doesn't own a car, has a longer commute and does it entirely by bicycle for most of the year.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > A 5 minute drive is a 10 minute e-bike commute. But 5 minutes in the dry is not the same as 10 minutes in the rain.
  - petre 4y ago
    The get lots of rain in the Nederlands and somehow they seem to manage just fine. Mudguards fix 60% of the rain issue, the rest is done by a raincoat.

petre 4y ago

1000 kg is still too heavy. Think of body frame for Smart Fourtwo vehicle but with 4 seats and made from bonded aluminium. Add plastic panels and you get a lighter vehicle.