4 ms·

DataStax is forcing me to pay $1k for service I haven't used, legal actions

1 points by idoxer 4y ago

DataStax were contacted me for a credits to bootstrap my project, we had calls discussing the project needs. I received a document to sign which from a first sight for me it was "This is the credits we give you". Turns out, I actually have to pay for it. They were giving me $2,000 worth of credits, for $1,000. Once I understood the mistake from my side, I asked them to cancel it. I used nothing from the credits in the account, and I offered to pay for the time the team invested me. But they are saying, "Order is booked can't be cancelled". Which means what? They clicked a button to virtually give me $2,000 I never used, and explained to them I really don't have the cash for it. Never the less that project isn't relevant anymore. I wasn't really giving him too much thought I really have to pay something, because we all get many free credits from other services with even similar amounts. In the call they just say "We are a $200M company in revenue" so why are you forcing me to pay this $1,000. I made a mistake, I used noting from your services is not like I'm running a way from the bill. I offered to pay the time I took from your team. But I'm not going to pay for something I didn't used.

elmerfud 4y ago
It sounds like you need to go back and reread the contract you signed and and any material you have in writing that lead up to you signing it. It seems like they sold you a product at a 50% discount. Your argument seems to be that you didn't use the product therefore you'd like to return it. This is where the situation gets sticky. Just because you didn't use something doesn't mean to call return it or not pay for it in terms of a virtual service. They sold, and presumably made it available for use and it still could be available for use, so in there mind they have fulfilled the agreement. I'm sure at some point in your life you've paid for something you got no use out of, we've all done that, this is just a bigger than normal veersion of that. Read over the contract and see what the cancelation clause is, and what the dispute clause is. It will be in there. If there's not, which I doubt, it will fall to your states law on purchases and disputes. If can show some kind of misrepresentation then your chances of getting out of it go up but you'll likely be spending money on a lawyer. From am monetary business perspective they probably have a good case on there side. From a $200m company reputation standpoint they look like assholes... They need a reality check that you can't act like Oracle until you are Oracle. It would be better to cancel it and then try and do business in the future.
- idoxer 4y ago
  I agree with everything you say, wasn't really a contract just "an offer" https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.ido.land/Untitled-1.jpg https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.ido.land/Untitled-1.jpg Especially agree regarding the assholes part, which is one of the reasons I post it. I was really surprised they are insist like this. I live in Israel, so it makes their case more expensive. I'll really be surprised if they will go into legal actions. Again, I was under the impressions is not something I need to pay for, what the judge could do if he will see no credits were used. That would be pretty stupid if even he is will require me to pay for it. Anyways, there legal expenses gonna exceed by far from that $1,000. And no sane judge will let me pay this "legal expenses" if they are suing for $1,000. Either way, we have many laws regarding those stuff in Israel as well they need to take part of. Since I'm a business registered in Israel I'm BTW no an entity, but rather individual. Just really a small guy with registered company to be able to create invoices, freelancer actually. I contacted them regarding personal project I wanted to develop, I also contacted their support since they have a missing private endpoint I was needed to GCP. From there they pushed for that credits discount (at that time for me it was "free credits" which turns out to be false) I agree with that they sold me a product, they rushed me to sign because they wanted to setup me up the account. But defiantly my bad of not seeing it. Regarding the product they were selling, is not that I bought something on amazon never used it and asked for refund. I did a mistake I would definitely won't do again. But this "product" is like you say, a discount. Why they try so hard to squeeze this money out of me, is it really a lot for me right now. And I really not gonna use their services anytime soon..
  - elmerfud 4y ago
    If you live in Israel then they will need to pursue collections and legal actions in your country. Them securing $1,000 judgment against you in California means absolutely nothing. And this pushes the entire product into a different realm. There's export agreements that need to be considered the enforceability of their master service agreement comes into question. All of it is up in the air if you are a citizen of a different country. Even inside the United States a lot of things can come into question if you're a citizen of a different state. Reading over their master service agreement your best bet for a, no cost to you, resolution is their dispute policy for billing. Which is within 60 days of receipt of an invoice you notified them in writing and that you are disputing it. In this case you're dispute was that you were told this was free therefore you're disputing the entire amount. This is when billing gets in volved and what you push for is to get someone in senior leadership and potentially legal involved. For a $1,000 bill and you being in another country they should just make this all. Although it will take some haggling. At least that's my guess.
anenefan 4y ago
Depends on what country you are in and what laws cover purchases which don't fit the need. There's a lot of slick BS out there aka loopholes some companies use to try and get around them. eg US -- https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/buyers-remorse-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/buyers-remorse-ftcs-coolin...
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  If you're discussing with a B2B company about buying service for a business idea you want to bootstrap the first question that will be asked is: Why do you think you should be considered a 'consumer'?
  - anenefan 4y ago
    When in business, is the client, not a consumer? About all I can suggest, if the time frame is short, it's possible there are existing regulations regarding purchases where it wasn't entirely that clear, and it's worthwhile to check. However there is a slight suggestion that the time frame is considerable, and it's been reserved and slotted for use in a given period of time.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      A 'consumer' in consumer protection laws means an individual acting privately and not for business. Consumer protection laws do not apply to businesses and individuals acting for business purposes. For instanced, in the link you shared previously it is written that the 'Cooling-off Rule' does not apply to "sales that are for goods or services not mainly for personal, family, or household use."
      - anenefan 4y ago
        I am not assuming US centric. The link was merely an example and chosen as the company in question was based there ... but regulations vary greatly country to country. Some countries do better, some have yet to offer much protection.

1 points by idoxer 4y ago

elmerfud 4y ago

It sounds like you need to go back and reread the contract you signed and and any material you have in writing that lead up to you signing it. It seems like they sold you a product at a 50% discount. Your argument seems to be that you didn't use the product therefore you'd like to return it. This is where the situation gets sticky. Just because you didn't use something doesn't mean to call return it or not pay for it in terms of a virtual service. They sold, and presumably made it available for use and it still could be available for use, so in there mind they have fulfilled the agreement. I'm sure at some point in your life you've paid for something you got no use out of, we've all done that, this is just a bigger than normal veersion of that. Read over the contract and see what the cancelation clause is, and what the dispute clause is. It will be in there. If there's not, which I doubt, it will fall to your states law on purchases and disputes. If can show some kind of misrepresentation then your chances of getting out of it go up but you'll likely be spending money on a lawyer. From am monetary business perspective they probably have a good case on there side. From a $200m company reputation standpoint they look like assholes... They need a reality check that you can't act like Oracle until you are Oracle. It would be better to cancel it and then try and do business in the future.

idoxer 4y ago
I agree with everything you say, wasn't really a contract just "an offer" https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.ido.land/Untitled-1.jpg https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.ido.land/Untitled-1.jpg Especially agree regarding the assholes part, which is one of the reasons I post it. I was really surprised they are insist like this. I live in Israel, so it makes their case more expensive. I'll really be surprised if they will go into legal actions. Again, I was under the impressions is not something I need to pay for, what the judge could do if he will see no credits were used. That would be pretty stupid if even he is will require me to pay for it. Anyways, there legal expenses gonna exceed by far from that $1,000. And no sane judge will let me pay this "legal expenses" if they are suing for $1,000. Either way, we have many laws regarding those stuff in Israel as well they need to take part of. Since I'm a business registered in Israel I'm BTW no an entity, but rather individual. Just really a small guy with registered company to be able to create invoices, freelancer actually. I contacted them regarding personal project I wanted to develop, I also contacted their support since they have a missing private endpoint I was needed to GCP. From there they pushed for that credits discount (at that time for me it was "free credits" which turns out to be false) I agree with that they sold me a product, they rushed me to sign because they wanted to setup me up the account. But defiantly my bad of not seeing it. Regarding the product they were selling, is not that I bought something on amazon never used it and asked for refund. I did a mistake I would definitely won't do again. But this "product" is like you say, a discount. Why they try so hard to squeeze this money out of me, is it really a lot for me right now. And I really not gonna use their services anytime soon..
- elmerfud 4y ago
  If you live in Israel then they will need to pursue collections and legal actions in your country. Them securing $1,000 judgment against you in California means absolutely nothing. And this pushes the entire product into a different realm. There's export agreements that need to be considered the enforceability of their master service agreement comes into question. All of it is up in the air if you are a citizen of a different country. Even inside the United States a lot of things can come into question if you're a citizen of a different state. Reading over their master service agreement your best bet for a, no cost to you, resolution is their dispute policy for billing. Which is within 60 days of receipt of an invoice you notified them in writing and that you are disputing it. In this case you're dispute was that you were told this was free therefore you're disputing the entire amount. This is when billing gets in volved and what you push for is to get someone in senior leadership and potentially legal involved. For a $1,000 bill and you being in another country they should just make this all. Although it will take some haggling. At least that's my guess.

anenefan 4y ago

Depends on what country you are in and what laws cover purchases which don't fit the need. There's a lot of slick BS out there aka loopholes some companies use to try and get around them. eg US -- https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/buyers-remorse-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/buyers-remorse-ftcs-coolin...

mytailorisrich 4y ago
If you're discussing with a B2B company about buying service for a business idea you want to bootstrap the first question that will be asked is: Why do you think you should be considered a 'consumer'?
- anenefan 4y ago
  When in business, is the client, not a consumer? About all I can suggest, if the time frame is short, it's possible there are existing regulations regarding purchases where it wasn't entirely that clear, and it's worthwhile to check. However there is a slight suggestion that the time frame is considerable, and it's been reserved and slotted for use in a given period of time.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    A 'consumer' in consumer protection laws means an individual acting privately and not for business. Consumer protection laws do not apply to businesses and individuals acting for business purposes. For instanced, in the link you shared previously it is written that the 'Cooling-off Rule' does not apply to "sales that are for goods or services not mainly for personal, family, or household use."
    - anenefan 4y ago
      I am not assuming US centric. The link was merely an example and chosen as the company in question was based there ... but regulations vary greatly country to country. Some countries do better, some have yet to offer much protection.