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The Hedgehog's dilemma is relevant for loneliness. From Wikipedia: "The hedgehog's dilemma, or sometimes the porcupine dilemma, is a metaphor about the challe

The Hedgehog's dilemma is relevant for loneliness. From Wikipedia: "The hedgehog's dilemma, or sometimes the porcupine dilemma, is a metaphor about the challenges of human intimacy. It describes a situation in which a group of hedgehogs seek to move close to one another to share heat during cold weather. They must remain apart, however, as they cannot avoid hurting one another with their sharp spines. Though they all share the intention of a close reciprocal relationship, this may not occur, for reasons they cannot avoid. Arthur Schopenhauer conceived this metaphor to describe what he considers to be the state of the individual in relation to others in society. The hedgehog's dilemma suggests that despite goodwill, human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm, and what results is cautious behavior and weak relationships. With the hedgehog's dilemma, one is recommended to use moderation in affairs with others both because of self-interest, as well as out of consideration for others. The hedgehog's dilemma is used to explain self-imposed isolation."

growt 4y ago
I’m not going to mess with Schopenhauer, but I feel this is wrong in respect to hedgehogs and also humans.
- Delk 4y ago
  It's probably wrong with respect to hedgehogs, but then, it's a metaphor, and what it's trying to say about human relationships makes sense to me in some way. The more intimate you are with someone, the more you're also aware of their pain and hardships. Intimate relationships involve conflicts and require compromises you would be able to avoid or not get into in a more distant relationship. They involve vulnerability and trust. The vulnerability and trust and the deep emotional meaning that intimate relationships have can make those conflicts all the more painful. Sometimes the compromises required or the shared pains can amount to damage. Of course that's not the only side of intimate relationships, as the metaphor also says. I'm not sure I'd agree with the interpretation that we (or most people) should be wary or moderate with closeness to other people. But I do get the idea that it's not without a significant cost that wouldn't be there when keeping a greater distance. Where each of us falls on the spectrum between the joys and pains (or even damage) of close relationships probably depends both on personality and our experiences.
  - growt 4y ago
    I 100% agree with you that greater intimacy leads to greater risk of being harmed. The thing I don't agree with is "human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm". That sounds a bit too absolute to be true and is also not my personal experience. But it might be just the way philosophers talk, or maybe "harm" has another definition here and includes things like "changing the partner" that one would not define as "harm" in another context?
robertlagrant 4y ago
> The hedgehog's dilemma suggests that despite goodwill, human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm Appreciating this is a short summary, I think it would be good to show why the hedgehog analogy is a good one. Reading this I inferred that this was just a given, that because we have this analogy of hedgehogs it must therefore be true for humans. It would be good to know why.
Pentamerous 4y ago
I remember learning about this from Neon Genesis Evangelion. It was also so carefully explained there as central to the characters plot
z7 4y ago
Debunked by hedgehogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxdQbjnVWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxdQbjnVWM

growt 4y ago

I’m not going to mess with Schopenhauer, but I feel this is wrong in respect to hedgehogs and also humans.

Delk 4y ago
It's probably wrong with respect to hedgehogs, but then, it's a metaphor, and what it's trying to say about human relationships makes sense to me in some way. The more intimate you are with someone, the more you're also aware of their pain and hardships. Intimate relationships involve conflicts and require compromises you would be able to avoid or not get into in a more distant relationship. They involve vulnerability and trust. The vulnerability and trust and the deep emotional meaning that intimate relationships have can make those conflicts all the more painful. Sometimes the compromises required or the shared pains can amount to damage. Of course that's not the only side of intimate relationships, as the metaphor also says. I'm not sure I'd agree with the interpretation that we (or most people) should be wary or moderate with closeness to other people. But I do get the idea that it's not without a significant cost that wouldn't be there when keeping a greater distance. Where each of us falls on the spectrum between the joys and pains (or even damage) of close relationships probably depends both on personality and our experiences.
- growt 4y ago
  I 100% agree with you that greater intimacy leads to greater risk of being harmed. The thing I don't agree with is "human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm". That sounds a bit too absolute to be true and is also not my personal experience. But it might be just the way philosophers talk, or maybe "harm" has another definition here and includes things like "changing the partner" that one would not define as "harm" in another context?

robertlagrant 4y ago

> The hedgehog's dilemma suggests that despite goodwill, human intimacy cannot occur without substantial mutual harm Appreciating this is a short summary, I think it would be good to show why the hedgehog analogy is a good one. Reading this I inferred that this was just a given, that because we have this analogy of hedgehogs it must therefore be true for humans. It would be good to know why.

Pentamerous 4y ago

I remember learning about this from Neon Genesis Evangelion. It was also so carefully explained there as central to the characters plot

z7 4y ago

Debunked by hedgehogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxdQbjnVWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxdQbjnVWM