3 ms·

fwiw, Caltrain's farebox recovery rate going into COVID was among the highest in the US at around 73%. Bart around 72%. WMATA was about 33%. Muni is among the l

fwiw, Caltrain's farebox recovery rate going into COVID was among the highest in the US at around 73%. Bart around 72%. WMATA was about 33%. Muni is among the lowest at 23%. [1] I agree farebox recovery rate is not something to optimize for. Public services don't lose money, they cost money. Nobody talks about how much the army loses. However. The choice was between (a) eliminating the $666M farebox recovery and taking it out of the municipal budget vs. adding $666M more funding without eliminating the farebox take. I strongly suspect the municipality would be far better served by the latter. The former plan doesn't address what people actually want. They want shorter headways. Instead they got the same headways, but cheaper. People aren't avoiding transit because it's too expensive. They're avoiding transit because it doesn't come often enough, it doesn't go where they need and stops running too early. It doesn't meet their needs. The average American spends $11,000 on a new car per year [2], or almost a half million dollars lifetime. If service was better, they wouldn't have to. This plan doesn't make service better. So, they still need their real cost center: their car. [1] https://www.enotrans.org/article/the-mass-transit-fiscal-cliff-estimating-the-size-and-scope-of-the-problem/ https://www.enotrans.org/article/the-mass-transit-fiscal-cli... [2] https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/08/annual-cost-of-new-car-ownership-crosses-10k-mark/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/08/annual-cost-of-new-car-owne...

yellowapple 4y ago
> Nobody talks about how much the army loses. I mean, I do. But that boils mostly down to me perceiving more value in a robust public transit network than in a bloated MIC.
incone123 4y ago
The average spend on a new car per year is not the same thing as what the 'average American' actually buys. Lots of people keep the same car for many years, or buy used, or even don't have a car.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Used cars cost roughly what new cars cost still, interest rates are higher than ever - insurance, gas, maintenance, car payments, parking, tickets, tolls, registration, license, etc, etc, it adds up really fast. Since it's so diffuse people aren't as sensitive. Not to mention with a used car w/o warranty you're on the hook for the whole cost if something goes wrong. Of course there will be outliers, but owning a car is a massive money sinkhole and a disproportionate burden on the poor. The average car insurance payment alone is $136 (and significantly more for those with 'bad credit' - i.e. the poor). Gas is another $150-200 per month. That's almost $4000 per year right there. The average monthly transit pass in the US is $83. [1, 2] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/990891/us-average-monthly-passes-in-transit-mode-transport/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/990891/us-average-monthl... [2] https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/how-much-is-car-insurance https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/how-much-is-car...

yellowapple 4y ago

> Nobody talks about how much the army loses. I mean, I do. But that boils mostly down to me perceiving more value in a robust public transit network than in a bloated MIC.

incone123 4y ago

The average spend on a new car per year is not the same thing as what the 'average American' actually buys. Lots of people keep the same car for many years, or buy used, or even don't have a car.

arcticbull 4y ago
Used cars cost roughly what new cars cost still, interest rates are higher than ever - insurance, gas, maintenance, car payments, parking, tickets, tolls, registration, license, etc, etc, it adds up really fast. Since it's so diffuse people aren't as sensitive. Not to mention with a used car w/o warranty you're on the hook for the whole cost if something goes wrong. Of course there will be outliers, but owning a car is a massive money sinkhole and a disproportionate burden on the poor. The average car insurance payment alone is $136 (and significantly more for those with 'bad credit' - i.e. the poor). Gas is another $150-200 per month. That's almost $4000 per year right there. The average monthly transit pass in the US is $83. [1, 2] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/990891/us-average-monthly-passes-in-transit-mode-transport/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/990891/us-average-monthl... [2] https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/how-much-is-car-insurance https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/insurance/how-much-is-car...