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So many licenses for other peoples software there, you sure this is from scratch?

slimsag 4y ago
I'm sad to see comments like this. When I was starting out years ago, my passion project ended up on HN with a very dismissive comment similar to yours - and it almost turned me off of my passion project of 4 years. I looked at their package.json, they pretty much pulled in the standard library (if there ever was one) of JS. Like lodash and that's about it. Not once did they claim "zero dependencies" or "running on my own OS" so your comment is not only dismissive, but wrong. I for one would encourage people to experiment with building new editors, not dismiss them. Otherwise we end up in a world where editors are built only by large corporations.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  > Not once did they claim "zero dependencies" The title literally says "Over the past 21 months I've written a code editor from the ground up". The linked blog post is titled "How to Write a Code Editor from Scratch in 4 Months". I don't know what you would consider "from the ground up" or "from scratch", but in my view that means no external libraries, if something isn't in the standard library I code it myself. That means that someone only needs a compiler and the standard library to build the application, rather than having to either use a dependency manager or (worse) track down and build the dependencies themselves.
mulmen 4y ago
> So many licenses for other peoples software there, you sure this is from scratch? If you wish to make a text editor from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- jakelazaroff 4y ago
  Real programmers use butterflies. https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/
- totetsu 4y ago
  "'Abort, Retry, Fail?' was the phrase some wormdog scrawled next to the door of the Edit Universe project room. And when the new dataspinners started working, fabricating their worlds on the huge organic comp systems, we'd remind them: if you see this message, always choose 'Retry." – Bad'l Ron, Wakener, "Morgan Polysoft"
- tmtvl 4y ago
  From scratch means if I am on a fresh install of whatever OS they are targetting and have a compiler (compiler, not build tool, so rustc, not cargo) of the language they use I can build the project without having to install any dependencies.
  - graboid 4y ago
    Is developing a software "from scratch" defined somewhere? Seems like you arbitrarily draw the line. rustc but not cargo? Even if you don't use any libraries, cargo is a useful tool. And if you reject tools, what editor/IDE would you code in?
    - tmtvl 4y ago
      I'm not saying anything about coding, I'm saying that if you code a thing in whatever language (let's say Ada) and I have a fresh install of an operating system (let's say Debian) and a compiler for the language you use (like the GCC Ada compiler) I should be able to compile your script into a program without having to install additional dependencies (like Alire).
      - pflanze 4y ago
        I'd say that's more describing "without (library) dependencies". I'm not in the construction business, but I guess if you build a house from the ground up, that means you're not building on top of some existing structure, but you might still be using prefabricated elements. I'd put the line here: whether ground work is used that was laid for editors, as opposed to general programming. If the thing that they are making (an editor) does not contain editor-specific prefabricated parts, then all the editor-specific work was still made from the ground up.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
oblio 4y ago
No, why wouldn't he use good tools others have built? That's just silly.
- teddyh 4y ago
  I can write an editor using tools others have built, too: apt install emacs Or should we, perhaps, consider “from the ground up” and “from scratch” to mean something?
  - oblio 4y ago
    Your argument is reductio ad absurdum.
    - teddyh 4y ago
      My argument is that words have meaning.
      - oblio 4y ago
        And my argument is that meanings are fluid and "from scratch" is something a reasonable programmer should understand in this context. For example, for me someone writing a new editor not using advanced components such as existing programming editor components counts as "from scratch". They don't need to use magnetic needles to shift individual bits on HDDs.
anaganisk 4y ago
So let's see, first, Build some vaccum tubes, Invent Assembly, Write a kernel, Write an OS, Build CRT monitor, Upgrade vaccum tubes to Si chips, Write a DE, Build the colospace software, 60 years later post on HN, I built an editor from scratch.

I'm sad to see comments like this. When I was starting out years ago, my passion project ended up on HN with a very dismissive comment similar to yours - and it almost turned me off of my passion project of 4 years. I looked at their package.json, they pretty much pulled in the standard library (if there ever was one) of JS. Like lodash and that's about it. Not once did they claim "zero dependencies" or "running on my own OS" so your comment is not only dismissive, but wrong. I for one would encourage people to experiment with building new editors, not dismiss them. Otherwise we end up in a world where editors are built only by large corporations.

tmtvl 4y ago
> Not once did they claim "zero dependencies" The title literally says "Over the past 21 months I've written a code editor from the ground up". The linked blog post is titled "How to Write a Code Editor from Scratch in 4 Months". I don't know what you would consider "from the ground up" or "from scratch", but in my view that means no external libraries, if something isn't in the standard library I code it myself. That means that someone only needs a compiler and the standard library to build the application, rather than having to either use a dependency manager or (worse) track down and build the dependencies themselves.

mulmen 4y ago

> So many licenses for other peoples software there, you sure this is from scratch? If you wish to make a text editor from scratch you must first invent the universe.

jakelazaroff 4y ago
Real programmers use butterflies. https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/
totetsu 4y ago
"'Abort, Retry, Fail?' was the phrase some wormdog scrawled next to the door of the Edit Universe project room. And when the new dataspinners started working, fabricating their worlds on the huge organic comp systems, we'd remind them: if you see this message, always choose 'Retry." – Bad'l Ron, Wakener, "Morgan Polysoft"
tmtvl 4y ago
From scratch means if I am on a fresh install of whatever OS they are targetting and have a compiler (compiler, not build tool, so rustc, not cargo) of the language they use I can build the project without having to install any dependencies.
- graboid 4y ago
  Is developing a software "from scratch" defined somewhere? Seems like you arbitrarily draw the line. rustc but not cargo? Even if you don't use any libraries, cargo is a useful tool. And if you reject tools, what editor/IDE would you code in?
  - tmtvl 4y ago
    I'm not saying anything about coding, I'm saying that if you code a thing in whatever language (let's say Ada) and I have a fresh install of an operating system (let's say Debian) and a compiler for the language you use (like the GCC Ada compiler) I should be able to compile your script into a program without having to install additional dependencies (like Alire).
    - pflanze 4y ago
      I'd say that's more describing "without (library) dependencies". I'm not in the construction business, but I guess if you build a house from the ground up, that means you're not building on top of some existing structure, but you might still be using prefabricated elements. I'd put the line here: whether ground work is used that was laid for editors, as opposed to general programming. If the thing that they are making (an editor) does not contain editor-specific prefabricated parts, then all the editor-specific work was still made from the ground up.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

oblio 4y ago

No, why wouldn't he use good tools others have built? That's just silly.

teddyh 4y ago
I can write an editor using tools others have built, too: apt install emacs Or should we, perhaps, consider “from the ground up” and “from scratch” to mean something?
- oblio 4y ago
  Your argument is reductio ad absurdum.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    My argument is that words have meaning.
    - oblio 4y ago
      And my argument is that meanings are fluid and "from scratch" is something a reasonable programmer should understand in this context. For example, for me someone writing a new editor not using advanced components such as existing programming editor components counts as "from scratch". They don't need to use magnetic needles to shift individual bits on HDDs.

anaganisk 4y ago

So let's see, first, Build some vaccum tubes, Invent Assembly, Write a kernel, Write an OS, Build CRT monitor, Upgrade vaccum tubes to Si chips, Write a DE, Build the colospace software, 60 years later post on HN, I built an editor from scratch.