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> C++ just isn't a very expressive language Compared to what? Modern C++ is by far the most expressive systems language. That is its primary selling point. It

> C++ just isn't a very expressive language Compared to what? Modern C++ is by far the most expressive systems language. That is its primary selling point. It isn’t pretty but it is uniquely powerful. One of the reasons C++ isn’t disappearing any time soon is that it elegantly and efficiently handles some software design problems that Rust struggles with. Rust and C++ are optimized for different types of software. As is implied, the type of software someone is writing has a large impact on whether or not they need the expressiveness of C++.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Can you elaborate on how Rust and C++ differ in the kinds of software they’re optimized for? And what makes C++ more elegant for purpose?
xigoi 4y ago
> Modern C++ is by far the most expressive systems language. If you want to iterate over a range of integers, you need to manually explain to the computer how to do it. In 2023. Also, you need to Write Everything Twice because of the ancient header system.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  No you don't. That is what ranges and modules are for.
  - xigoi 4y ago
    Ranges: kind of, there is the very awkwardly named std::ranges::iota_view, but it doesn't support random access and who knows if the compiler can optimize iteration over it into a simple loop. Modules are not supported by most compilers (in g++ you have to enable them as an experimental feature with -fmodules-ts, and if you want to import the standard library as modules, you need to pre-compile them into your project directory with some arcane commands).
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Ranges: they are there, naming is a matter of taste. Modules: GCC and clang will eventually get there, I am already enjoying them on VC++
    - jstimpfle 4y ago
      #define RANGE(type, name, last) type name = 0, last__ = (last); name != last__; name++ for (RANGE(i32, i, foo->count)) ... That solves the problem even in C. But why care much, typing a few plain loops isn't among the hard problems to solve.
aldanor 4y ago
Compared to Rust. Once you you've worked enough with proper enums and matches, that's the first thing you'll be lacking in C++ (and no, std::variant is a horrible mess without proper syntax support and doesn't even get close).

throwaway894345 4y ago

Can you elaborate on how Rust and C++ differ in the kinds of software they’re optimized for? And what makes C++ more elegant for purpose?

xigoi 4y ago

> Modern C++ is by far the most expressive systems language. If you want to iterate over a range of integers, you need to manually explain to the computer how to do it. In 2023. Also, you need to Write Everything Twice because of the ancient header system.

pjmlp 4y ago
No you don't. That is what ranges and modules are for.
- xigoi 4y ago
  Ranges: kind of, there is the very awkwardly named std::ranges::iota_view, but it doesn't support random access and who knows if the compiler can optimize iteration over it into a simple loop. Modules are not supported by most compilers (in g++ you have to enable them as an experimental feature with -fmodules-ts, and if you want to import the standard library as modules, you need to pre-compile them into your project directory with some arcane commands).
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Ranges: they are there, naming is a matter of taste. Modules: GCC and clang will eventually get there, I am already enjoying them on VC++
  - jstimpfle 4y ago
    #define RANGE(type, name, last) type name = 0, last__ = (last); name != last__; name++ for (RANGE(i32, i, foo->count)) ... That solves the problem even in C. But why care much, typing a few plain loops isn't among the hard problems to solve.

aldanor 4y ago

Compared to Rust. Once you you've worked enough with proper enums and matches, that's the first thing you'll be lacking in C++ (and no, std::variant is a horrible mess without proper syntax support and doesn't even get close).