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I don't see that implication being made and I have trouble believing anyone could read that into the above in good faith. The linked questions mentions that thi

by nvrmnd 4y ago

I don't see that implication being made and I have trouble believing anyone could read that into the above in good faith. The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior.

lazide 4y ago
According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct? No, according to the complainants, there has been no unwanted advances. IOW, the people who object to this have said that there have been no unwanted advances. Why are you assuming that poor behaviour won't be reported by the complainants when they complain?
  - lazide 4y ago
    Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission?
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?
      - lazide 4y ago
        I literally said, and have been saying the opposite. Maybe read next time?
        lelanthran 4y ago
        You cannot see how this exchange is ambigous? > The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior. >> According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
        lazide 4y ago
        The claim they were making was that there was an uncomfortable environment. They did not claim there was any illegal behavior. When saying the class hasn’t been surveyed, the reasonable assumption here is the class hasn’t been surveyed to see the percentage of uncomfortable students - as that can only be substantiated or not by asking for opinions/internal state, as there are no clear objective markers otherwise. It’s a purely subjective thing. Which by the way, in any large number of students will always be non-zero for pretty much anything. Any obvious Illegal behavior would likely not require a survey, as one person reporting it should be enough to investigate, and should have enough concrete objective details to substantiate it or not. Allegations of illegal behavior when they aren’t occurring are, unfortunately, also decently common. Even when everything is being recorded. It does make the investigation a lot easier though!
  - saghm 4y ago
    I'd argue that there have been numerous cases of illicit behavior coming out long after the fact, and that any number of factors could involve a victim being hesitant to report an incident of any specific individual, but even putting that aside, there's still the matter of the website itself. Did they have permission to use the data in this way, or were there terms that disallowed it being used for something like this? Did the students consent to their data being included in this database, and were they properly informed about what uses would and would not be allowed with that data? Did the actual content of the website alongside the data encourage any illicit behavior or lie about how it was obtained? Some of these might not fall on the side of illegality, but the details about what exactly this data is and where it came from is a bit vague (at least in the initial question; I didn't read through every response, so it's possible some later replies might shed light on this). Without knowing what jurisdiction the university is at, if it's public or private, or who at the university was involved with compiling and publishing the data, it seems plausible that there _might_ be something worth investigating from a legal perspective, and I feel like that would necessarily include looking at the actions of the students who made the website.
saghm 4y ago
It seems pretty obvious what the intentions of the men [EDIT: described in the article] here were, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother stating that if they didn't intend it to convey anything additional. Given the relative number of times I've seen people say things like "just trying to score a date"to defend sketchy behavior compared to anything else, it's honestly hard for me to imagine _not_ having a viscerally negative reaction to that phrase. I recognize that everyone has different experiences, so the way they'll interpret ambiguous language will vary, but my good faith response to something like that is genuinely just..."yikes".

by nvrmnd 4y ago

lazide 4y ago

According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?

lelanthran 4y ago
> According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct? No, according to the complainants, there has been no unwanted advances. IOW, the people who object to this have said that there have been no unwanted advances. Why are you assuming that poor behaviour won't be reported by the complainants when they complain?
- lazide 4y ago
  Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission?
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?
    - lazide 4y ago
      I literally said, and have been saying the opposite. Maybe read next time?
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        You cannot see how this exchange is ambigous? > The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior. >> According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
        lazide 4y ago
        The claim they were making was that there was an uncomfortable environment. They did not claim there was any illegal behavior. When saying the class hasn’t been surveyed, the reasonable assumption here is the class hasn’t been surveyed to see the percentage of uncomfortable students - as that can only be substantiated or not by asking for opinions/internal state, as there are no clear objective markers otherwise. It’s a purely subjective thing. Which by the way, in any large number of students will always be non-zero for pretty much anything. Any obvious Illegal behavior would likely not require a survey, as one person reporting it should be enough to investigate, and should have enough concrete objective details to substantiate it or not. Allegations of illegal behavior when they aren’t occurring are, unfortunately, also decently common. Even when everything is being recorded. It does make the investigation a lot easier though!
- saghm 4y ago
  I'd argue that there have been numerous cases of illicit behavior coming out long after the fact, and that any number of factors could involve a victim being hesitant to report an incident of any specific individual, but even putting that aside, there's still the matter of the website itself. Did they have permission to use the data in this way, or were there terms that disallowed it being used for something like this? Did the students consent to their data being included in this database, and were they properly informed about what uses would and would not be allowed with that data? Did the actual content of the website alongside the data encourage any illicit behavior or lie about how it was obtained? Some of these might not fall on the side of illegality, but the details about what exactly this data is and where it came from is a bit vague (at least in the initial question; I didn't read through every response, so it's possible some later replies might shed light on this). Without knowing what jurisdiction the university is at, if it's public or private, or who at the university was involved with compiling and publishing the data, it seems plausible that there _might_ be something worth investigating from a legal perspective, and I feel like that would necessarily include looking at the actions of the students who made the website.

saghm 4y ago

It seems pretty obvious what the intentions of the men [EDIT: described in the article] here were, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother stating that if they didn't intend it to convey anything additional. Given the relative number of times I've seen people say things like "just trying to score a date"to defend sketchy behavior compared to anything else, it's honestly hard for me to imagine _not_ having a viscerally negative reaction to that phrase. I recognize that everyone has different experiences, so the way they'll interpret ambiguous language will vary, but my good faith response to something like that is genuinely just..."yikes".