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Does anyone really like C++ and also knows it really well? I’ve never really met anyone who’s actually liked C++ in the form it’s become in the last several ye

by dagmx 4y ago

Does anyone really like C++ and also knows it really well? I’ve never really met anyone who’s actually liked C++ in the form it’s become in the last several years. It’s not that people need to dislike it if they don’t like it. But do people actually have a positive opinion of it? I use C++ daily, and I think I know it well, and the more I get to know it the less I like it. I don’t dislike it but it’s a mess. The same goes for CMake. I think it’s alright. But does anyone like it? It’s the best C++ build system plus ecosystem (please note I mention both, not just build system) but it’s easy to not like. Put another way, if I had three ratings of “like” “dislike” or “meh”, both C++ and CMake are meh.

enedil 4y ago
Seems to be selection bias. I know quite a lot of experienced C++ programmers who pretty much like C++.
jandrewrogers 4y ago
For certain types of code, modern C++ is uniquely expressive and powerful despite its many flaws, which is attractive. If you know how to use modern C++ well and switch to other systems languages, you immediately notice the loss of expressiveness and that some things become much more difficult to do. I don’t like C++ aesthetics but I do like its expressiveness and power (and neither C nor Rust are particularly aesthetic either). The recent versions of C++ are vastly superior to the older versions. While I know there are some people like this, I can’t imagine what people find attractive about legacy C++. It was a terrible language to use until relatively recently. As for C++ build systems, once I started using Meson I never looked back. Meson is actually pretty nice.
- dagmx 4y ago
  I think you unfortunately talked past both my points. 1. I’m specifically NOT saying that C++ doesn’t have its merits. It does. It’s a very capable language. But that’s different than positive mindshare, and I’d argue very few people genuinely like the language. Most people I encounter or see online seem to fall into apathetic about it, or want it to be simpler like C or more comprehensive about safety like Rust or have a better STD+Build system like rust. 2. Meson is great sure, but that’s why I specifically said PLUS ecosystem. Nothing really compares to cmake right now for the ecosystem and that’s a really big deal.

by dagmx 4y ago

enedil 4y ago

Seems to be selection bias. I know quite a lot of experienced C++ programmers who pretty much like C++.

jandrewrogers 4y ago

For certain types of code, modern C++ is uniquely expressive and powerful despite its many flaws, which is attractive. If you know how to use modern C++ well and switch to other systems languages, you immediately notice the loss of expressiveness and that some things become much more difficult to do. I don’t like C++ aesthetics but I do like its expressiveness and power (and neither C nor Rust are particularly aesthetic either). The recent versions of C++ are vastly superior to the older versions. While I know there are some people like this, I can’t imagine what people find attractive about legacy C++. It was a terrible language to use until relatively recently. As for C++ build systems, once I started using Meson I never looked back. Meson is actually pretty nice.

dagmx 4y ago
I think you unfortunately talked past both my points. 1. I’m specifically NOT saying that C++ doesn’t have its merits. It does. It’s a very capable language. But that’s different than positive mindshare, and I’d argue very few people genuinely like the language. Most people I encounter or see online seem to fall into apathetic about it, or want it to be simpler like C or more comprehensive about safety like Rust or have a better STD+Build system like rust. 2. Meson is great sure, but that’s why I specifically said PLUS ecosystem. Nothing really compares to cmake right now for the ecosystem and that’s a really big deal.