6 ms·

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I i

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I imagine things have gotten better since. Still, seems like a fairly high effort low outcome place to meet someone who is likely not even receptive to advances in that context. Do colleges not offer many other opportunities for people to meet outside of class in 2023? It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date. Yikes.

Der_Einzige 4y ago
Things have not gotten better. I had several 3 and 4 hundred level CS classes with literally zero women in them. This was at a large, major public school with several hundred in our CS program.
- dymk 4y ago
  But if it's not a pipeline issue, what could it be!
- Larrikin 4y ago
  My upper level CS classes in college had one woman back in early 2010s. I entered grad school some years later. My graduate level CS courses that over lapped the data science classes were usually around fifty percent. The courses that didn't were more male but nothing close to undergraduate. It really wasn't something I noticed like in undergrad. So seems to be getting better What I did notice was both the data science classes and CS classes often times had fifty percent or higher non American students. We seem to be educating a lot of foreign born students who are willing to come to America. It felt gross when I had a friend, with an American master's degree in STEM, who ended up having to leave a job she liked to go back to her home country because she ran out of time on her visa and didn't win the lottery to stay. Seems extremely stupid of us to be kicking out highly educated individuals basically randomly.
  - mjevans 4y ago
    The correct answer is to require the hiring of any non-citizen to be for something like the greater than the top 25th (mode average) pay in that field nationally / in that locality AND to allow anyone that's put in 3 months of work or more at a job one year after that job to land the next compatible one or finish up their immigration paperwork as long as they're actively looking for work.
  - atyppo 4y ago
    America's immigration system is in desperate need of reform. The green card "diversity" lottery is stupid and outright discriminatory. I've considered emigrating from the US to some EU members, and while it isn't easy for any of these countries, it certainly is nowhere near as difficult as if I were doing the reverse. Will it ever be fixed in my lifetime? I'm 22. I have my doubts.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      If America really wanted to reform its immigration system, it would have by now. Half the people in America want much less immigration; they said so loud and clear when they elected Trump. These voters don't want people with masters degrees in STEM, or anyone else really; they think people with masters degrees are going to take their jobs at Walmart.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    Obviously, America doesn't really want people like that. People with master's degrees in STEM should instead look for countries that welcome them with their immigration policies.
  - sinity 4y ago
    > Seems extremely stupid of us to be kicking out highly educated individuals basically randomly. I don't understand why the US won't allow me to migrate*. Presumably someone from the EU making above-average salary should be net gain. There are no significant "cultural differences", I think. I resent that tech world is centered on the SV and I don't have fucking access because I was born in the wrong location. I guess I should be happy it was inside of the EU, at least. * well, I haven't tried. Diversity lottery has bullshit odds, H1b is too hard to get. I think I'd be willing to offer sth like $100K for a permanent residence permit, if it was possible. Why isn't it? Instead the price is investing ~$1M - apparently, if you need to work for a living, you're not free. (through it's _investing_ - presumably there could be a way to _pay_ someone less than that to invest on your behalf and then take that money later, along with what you paid them for this service. Hmm.)
shusaku 4y ago
When I was in college I think the thing to do was to take the ballroom dancing class if you wanted to meet Mr./Mrs. Right. I agree that taking an introductory science class is overthinking things…
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- climb_stealth 4y ago
  Hah, in my time at a technical uni it felt like everyone had the idea to take Spanish classes. Because women love Spanish, right? And surely that's what they do with their free time, right? Cue the start of the Spanish course with 18 guys and 2 girls in it. Not sure how it progressed but I dropped it again after that one semester. I have a feeling many of the other guys did the same.
saghm 4y ago
> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date. Yikes. I think the bigger "yikes" to me is the implication that being young, male, and lusty as a motivation is a sufficient to dismiss any possibility of illicit behavior.
- nvrmnd 4y ago
  I don't see that implication being made and I have trouble believing anyone could read that into the above in good faith. The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior.
  - lazide 4y ago
    According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct? No, according to the complainants, there has been no unwanted advances. IOW, the people who object to this have said that there have been no unwanted advances. Why are you assuming that poor behaviour won't be reported by the complainants when they complain?
      - lazide 4y ago
        Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission?
        lelanthran 4y ago
        > Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?
xwdv 4y ago
[flagged]
- texaslonghorn5 4y ago
  if this post is reflective of how you and fellow male computer science students acted with them then maybe we have a reason why they don't like computer science that much
blobbers 4y ago
I met Mrs. Right in one of those classes! But like time she eventually slipped away and I never saw her again...
- buu700 4y ago
  Similarly, I met Mrs. Wright in high school CS. She was a fantastic teacher who helped cultivate a lifelong passion for the subject.
8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
i was going to say.. there weren't many women in my CS classes either and I'm not an outgoing person, but i still had no problem meeting women. just go to whatever events anyone puts on. whether it's a dorm party or a school dance. just go out. that's how you meet people.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Tozen 4y ago
Part of the problem appears to be the anti-male agendas or stealth contempt of males and heterosexual coupling. If this was in reverse or non heterosexual, it would likely be close to a "protected" privilege or right nor not even mentioned. Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situation and the inherent unfairness of it can mean attempts at silencing and demonization. It has reached the point of silliness, where instead of focusing on teaching (like you would think), time is endlessly spent on worrying about which adults might be dating who or ways to more effectively block heterosexual male students. That this is even going on, is likely a reflection of such reduced normal opportunities for meeting (that should be available in college), that students would be resorting to more desperate measures.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. If so, it's a weird thing to demonize - 80% of women chase after the same 20% of males in the 18-39 demographic. That means 80% of males of poor dating options.
- mitt_romney_12 4y ago
  > Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situation and the inherent unfairness of it can mean attempts at silencing and demonization. Do you have any other examples of this occurring? > It has reached the point of silliness, where instead of focusing on teaching (like you would think), time is endlessly spent on worrying about which adults might be dating who or ways to more effectively block heterosexual male students. The professors concerns seem to be that students think that the class is an uncomfortable environment, not that student are dating or that heterosexual students are trying to hook up.
  - Tozen 4y ago
    > The professors concerns seem to be that students think that the class is an uncomfortable environment, not that student are dating or that heterosexual students are trying to hook up. Based on the evidence of what the professor typed, she's going too far beyond what should be her professional limits. Her job, in addition to teaching the subject, should be noticing and addressing any actual violation of school rules and policies. A student in her class can feel uncomfortable, demoralized, or disgusted by the color of clothes someone chooses to wear, the way someone walks, or that a person stutters when they talk. Someone's preferences or feelings about another doesn't mean a violation of school rules, policy, or law. It is also not for her to presume what people might be thinking, to automatically assume guilt without evidence, to be preoccupied with the possible dating and sexual lives of her students outside of her classroom, nor attempt to forcibly interject herself or any prudish beliefs into the private lives of her adult students.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 4y ago
> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date College students aren’t “kids” and it’s extremely disturbing that our society continues to infantilize teenagers and grownups and push the boundary of adulthood later and later. In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men happens at 13. Clearly we don’t need to coddle these little degenerates into their 20s.
- piva00 4y ago
  > In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men happens at 13. What does this have to do with anything in the modern age? Girls being up for grabs after their first period was also a tradition of coming of age, it doesn't mean anything about a kid's maturity...
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  > there are no unwanted advances, but it's painfully obvious to some students of what's taking place Auditing a class and showboating while making no unwanted advances seems pretty harmless.

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Things have not gotten better. I had several 3 and 4 hundred level CS classes with literally zero women in them. This was at a large, major public school with several hundred in our CS program.

dymk 4y ago
But if it's not a pipeline issue, what could it be!
Larrikin 4y ago
My upper level CS classes in college had one woman back in early 2010s. I entered grad school some years later. My graduate level CS courses that over lapped the data science classes were usually around fifty percent. The courses that didn't were more male but nothing close to undergraduate. It really wasn't something I noticed like in undergrad. So seems to be getting better What I did notice was both the data science classes and CS classes often times had fifty percent or higher non American students. We seem to be educating a lot of foreign born students who are willing to come to America. It felt gross when I had a friend, with an American master's degree in STEM, who ended up having to leave a job she liked to go back to her home country because she ran out of time on her visa and didn't win the lottery to stay. Seems extremely stupid of us to be kicking out highly educated individuals basically randomly.
- mjevans 4y ago
  The correct answer is to require the hiring of any non-citizen to be for something like the greater than the top 25th (mode average) pay in that field nationally / in that locality AND to allow anyone that's put in 3 months of work or more at a job one year after that job to land the next compatible one or finish up their immigration paperwork as long as they're actively looking for work.
- atyppo 4y ago
  America's immigration system is in desperate need of reform. The green card "diversity" lottery is stupid and outright discriminatory. I've considered emigrating from the US to some EU members, and while it isn't easy for any of these countries, it certainly is nowhere near as difficult as if I were doing the reverse. Will it ever be fixed in my lifetime? I'm 22. I have my doubts.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    If America really wanted to reform its immigration system, it would have by now. Half the people in America want much less immigration; they said so loud and clear when they elected Trump. These voters don't want people with masters degrees in STEM, or anyone else really; they think people with masters degrees are going to take their jobs at Walmart.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Obviously, America doesn't really want people like that. People with master's degrees in STEM should instead look for countries that welcome them with their immigration policies.
- sinity 4y ago
  > Seems extremely stupid of us to be kicking out highly educated individuals basically randomly. I don't understand why the US won't allow me to migrate*. Presumably someone from the EU making above-average salary should be net gain. There are no significant "cultural differences", I think. I resent that tech world is centered on the SV and I don't have fucking access because I was born in the wrong location. I guess I should be happy it was inside of the EU, at least. * well, I haven't tried. Diversity lottery has bullshit odds, H1b is too hard to get. I think I'd be willing to offer sth like $100K for a permanent residence permit, if it was possible. Why isn't it? Instead the price is investing ~$1M - apparently, if you need to work for a living, you're not free. (through it's _investing_ - presumably there could be a way to _pay_ someone less than that to invest on your behalf and then take that money later, along with what you paid them for this service. Hmm.)

shusaku 4y ago

When I was in college I think the thing to do was to take the ballroom dancing class if you wanted to meet Mr./Mrs. Right. I agree that taking an introductory science class is overthinking things…

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
climb_stealth 4y ago
Hah, in my time at a technical uni it felt like everyone had the idea to take Spanish classes. Because women love Spanish, right? And surely that's what they do with their free time, right? Cue the start of the Spanish course with 18 guys and 2 girls in it. Not sure how it progressed but I dropped it again after that one semester. I have a feeling many of the other guys did the same.

saghm 4y ago

> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date. Yikes. I think the bigger "yikes" to me is the implication that being young, male, and lusty as a motivation is a sufficient to dismiss any possibility of illicit behavior.

nvrmnd 4y ago
I don't see that implication being made and I have trouble believing anyone could read that into the above in good faith. The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior.
- lazide 4y ago
  According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct? No, according to the complainants, there has been no unwanted advances. IOW, the people who object to this have said that there have been no unwanted advances. Why are you assuming that poor behaviour won't be reported by the complainants when they complain?
    - lazide 4y ago
      Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission?
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?

xwdv 4y ago

[flagged]

texaslonghorn5 4y ago
if this post is reflective of how you and fellow male computer science students acted with them then maybe we have a reason why they don't like computer science that much

blobbers 4y ago

I met Mrs. Right in one of those classes! But like time she eventually slipped away and I never saw her again...

buu700 4y ago
Similarly, I met Mrs. Wright in high school CS. She was a fantastic teacher who helped cultivate a lifelong passion for the subject.

8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago

i was going to say.. there weren't many women in my CS classes either and I'm not an outgoing person, but i still had no problem meeting women. just go to whatever events anyone puts on. whether it's a dorm party or a school dance. just go out. that's how you meet people.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Tozen 4y ago

Part of the problem appears to be the anti-male agendas or stealth contempt of males and heterosexual coupling. If this was in reverse or non heterosexual, it would likely be close to a "protected" privilege or right nor not even mentioned. Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situation and the inherent unfairness of it can mean attempts at silencing and demonization. It has reached the point of silliness, where instead of focusing on teaching (like you would think), time is endlessly spent on worrying about which adults might be dating who or ways to more effectively block heterosexual male students. That this is even going on, is likely a reflection of such reduced normal opportunities for meeting (that should be available in college), that students would be resorting to more desperate measures.

lelanthran 4y ago
> Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. If so, it's a weird thing to demonize - 80% of women chase after the same 20% of males in the 18-39 demographic. That means 80% of males of poor dating options.
mitt_romney_12 4y ago
> Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situation and the inherent unfairness of it can mean attempts at silencing and demonization. Do you have any other examples of this occurring? > It has reached the point of silliness, where instead of focusing on teaching (like you would think), time is endlessly spent on worrying about which adults might be dating who or ways to more effectively block heterosexual male students. The professors concerns seem to be that students think that the class is an uncomfortable environment, not that student are dating or that heterosexual students are trying to hook up.
- Tozen 4y ago
  > The professors concerns seem to be that students think that the class is an uncomfortable environment, not that student are dating or that heterosexual students are trying to hook up. Based on the evidence of what the professor typed, she's going too far beyond what should be her professional limits. Her job, in addition to teaching the subject, should be noticing and addressing any actual violation of school rules and policies. A student in her class can feel uncomfortable, demoralized, or disgusted by the color of clothes someone chooses to wear, the way someone walks, or that a person stutters when they talk. Someone's preferences or feelings about another doesn't mean a violation of school rules, policy, or law. It is also not for her to presume what people might be thinking, to automatically assume guilt without evidence, to be preoccupied with the possible dating and sexual lives of her students outside of her classroom, nor attempt to forcibly interject herself or any prudish beliefs into the private lives of her adult students.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rayiner 4y ago

> It's interesting that one of the highest-voted responses suggests bringing in the ten ton hammer of legal governmental involvement against a bunch of kids trying to score a date College students aren’t “kids” and it’s extremely disturbing that our society continues to infantilize teenagers and grownups and push the boundary of adulthood later and later. In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men happens at 13. Clearly we don’t need to coddle these little degenerates into their 20s.

piva00 4y ago
> In the Jewish tradition the coming of age ritual for young men happens at 13. What does this have to do with anything in the modern age? Girls being up for grabs after their first period was also a tradition of coming of age, it doesn't mean anything about a kid's maturity...
JamesBarney 4y ago
> there are no unwanted advances, but it's painfully obvious to some students of what's taking place Auditing a class and showboating while making no unwanted advances seems pretty harmless.