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“Nobody really likes C++” Not really sure why bold statements like this are so popular. But people read them, blindly assume they’re true and further propagate

“Nobody really likes C++” Not really sure why bold statements like this are so popular. But people read them, blindly assume they’re true and further propagate this mentality that “Rust is faster, more secure, lighter, has 12 pack abs, and a hot blonde gf”. A lot of us are sick of hearing it.

queuebert 4y ago
Rust is the worst systems programming language, except for all the others.
jimbo9991 4y ago
I think most C++ programmers would agree with that statement. C++ isn't winning any awards in programming language elegance, ease of use, or innovation. That doesn't mean it's bad, but I don't think very many people who work in C++ wind up evangelizing the language in the same way Rust or C programmers promote their languages.
- rcxdude 4y ago
  I agree. A lot of C++ programmers may think it's better than the alternatives (especially C) but that still doesn't mean they like it.
dagmx 4y ago
Does anyone really like C++ and also knows it really well? I’ve never really met anyone who’s actually liked C++ in the form it’s become in the last several years. It’s not that people need to dislike it if they don’t like it. But do people actually have a positive opinion of it? I use C++ daily, and I think I know it well, and the more I get to know it the less I like it. I don’t dislike it but it’s a mess. The same goes for CMake. I think it’s alright. But does anyone like it? It’s the best C++ build system plus ecosystem (please note I mention both, not just build system) but it’s easy to not like. Put another way, if I had three ratings of “like” “dislike” or “meh”, both C++ and CMake are meh.
- enedil 4y ago
  Seems to be selection bias. I know quite a lot of experienced C++ programmers who pretty much like C++.
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  For certain types of code, modern C++ is uniquely expressive and powerful despite its many flaws, which is attractive. If you know how to use modern C++ well and switch to other systems languages, you immediately notice the loss of expressiveness and that some things become much more difficult to do. I don’t like C++ aesthetics but I do like its expressiveness and power (and neither C nor Rust are particularly aesthetic either). The recent versions of C++ are vastly superior to the older versions. While I know there are some people like this, I can’t imagine what people find attractive about legacy C++. It was a terrible language to use until relatively recently. As for C++ build systems, once I started using Meson I never looked back. Meson is actually pretty nice.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    I think you unfortunately talked past both my points. 1. I’m specifically NOT saying that C++ doesn’t have its merits. It does. It’s a very capable language. But that’s different than positive mindshare, and I’d argue very few people genuinely like the language. Most people I encounter or see online seem to fall into apathetic about it, or want it to be simpler like C or more comprehensive about safety like Rust or have a better STD+Build system like rust. 2. Meson is great sure, but that’s why I specifically said PLUS ecosystem. Nothing really compares to cmake right now for the ecosystem and that’s a really big deal.

queuebert 4y ago

Rust is the worst systems programming language, except for all the others.

jimbo9991 4y ago

I think most C++ programmers would agree with that statement. C++ isn't winning any awards in programming language elegance, ease of use, or innovation. That doesn't mean it's bad, but I don't think very many people who work in C++ wind up evangelizing the language in the same way Rust or C programmers promote their languages.

rcxdude 4y ago
I agree. A lot of C++ programmers may think it's better than the alternatives (especially C) but that still doesn't mean they like it.

dagmx 4y ago

Does anyone really like C++ and also knows it really well? I’ve never really met anyone who’s actually liked C++ in the form it’s become in the last several years. It’s not that people need to dislike it if they don’t like it. But do people actually have a positive opinion of it? I use C++ daily, and I think I know it well, and the more I get to know it the less I like it. I don’t dislike it but it’s a mess. The same goes for CMake. I think it’s alright. But does anyone like it? It’s the best C++ build system plus ecosystem (please note I mention both, not just build system) but it’s easy to not like. Put another way, if I had three ratings of “like” “dislike” or “meh”, both C++ and CMake are meh.

enedil 4y ago
Seems to be selection bias. I know quite a lot of experienced C++ programmers who pretty much like C++.
jandrewrogers 4y ago
For certain types of code, modern C++ is uniquely expressive and powerful despite its many flaws, which is attractive. If you know how to use modern C++ well and switch to other systems languages, you immediately notice the loss of expressiveness and that some things become much more difficult to do. I don’t like C++ aesthetics but I do like its expressiveness and power (and neither C nor Rust are particularly aesthetic either). The recent versions of C++ are vastly superior to the older versions. While I know there are some people like this, I can’t imagine what people find attractive about legacy C++. It was a terrible language to use until relatively recently. As for C++ build systems, once I started using Meson I never looked back. Meson is actually pretty nice.
- dagmx 4y ago
  I think you unfortunately talked past both my points. 1. I’m specifically NOT saying that C++ doesn’t have its merits. It does. It’s a very capable language. But that’s different than positive mindshare, and I’d argue very few people genuinely like the language. Most people I encounter or see online seem to fall into apathetic about it, or want it to be simpler like C or more comprehensive about safety like Rust or have a better STD+Build system like rust. 2. Meson is great sure, but that’s why I specifically said PLUS ecosystem. Nothing really compares to cmake right now for the ecosystem and that’s a really big deal.