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Genuine question: how was Apple rarely sued in similar fashion? Not just compared to Android/Google, but also the way they bundle programs in their operating s

Genuine question: how was Apple rarely sued in similar fashion? Not just compared to Android/Google, but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in the US/EU. To my untrained eyes, they're worse in almost every aspect. Is it just the boring answer "they have better lawyers", or are there things fundamentally different?

dvngnt_ 4y ago
in Europe they have been. I think they have to open it up at least there in the future along with usb-c
allisdust 4y ago
Because they have cornered the market for top 5% incomes while leaving the rest 95% to their competitors. Since their market share is always less, they always get less scrutiny. Outside of developed world, no one uses apple products unless paid by their workplace (for example mac books) or if they are in the top 1% of their country.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  This lawsuit only applies to the US, where ios has a majority of the market.
- zimspy 4y ago
  Or in my social circles they want to appear to be top 1%.
dahfizz 4y ago
They vertically integrated beyond the scope of the law. Microsoft got in trouble for forcing their hardware suppliers to only ship windows machines. By taking the hardware in house, Apple does the same but it's legal. Google loses an antitrust case for monopolizing app stores on Android. By making alternative app stores technically impossible, Apple doesn't have the same issue. It really feels like the went mega-monopoly so hard that the law doesn't apply to them.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > Microsoft got in trouble for forcing their hardware suppliers to only ship windows machines. Not accurate. They required their licensees to pay a license fee for every machine they sold, whether it was sold with Windows or another OS. This meant that any machine that didn't ship with Windows was burdened with two licensing fees, one to Microsoft and one to whatever other OS provider.
  - Aperocky 4y ago
    Interesting, it should be easy enough to track the number of Windows OS being shipped so this is really just Microsoft strong arming the suppliers with monopolistic intent. And punished rightfully so.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  > Google loses an antitrust case for monopolizing app stores on Android Note that they didn't lose; they settled. It was in their best interest not to put the question to the courts in the first place. (As, apparnently, did Apple according to adjacent threads).
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > vertically integrated beyond the scope of the law Cupertino plays in the super-premium segment, leaving the value end of the spectrum open to competition.
Maursault 4y ago
> but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in EU. Microsoft was blocking competitors by requiring a fee for every processor sold by a manufacturer that offered Windows, whether that machine was sold with Windows or not, causing any other operating system sold on licensee machines to be more expensive for consumers. It wasn't bundling that was the issue in Microsoft Corp v Commission, it was tying applications together, such that if you purchase one application, you are forced to purchase another. I don't see how it relates. Apple bundles software but does not sell what it bundles, nor even the OS, which is also free, nor is the consumer unable to remove that software or required to pay a licensing fee to Apple whether they run their OS or not, unlike with Microsoft Windows and Explorer. You can delete Safari and every application Apple bundles, including the OS, and you can not purchase it because it's free with the hardware. Apple is not tying applications, and there's nothing anti-competitive with their bundling.
- dexterdog 4y ago
  Wait, you can delete apple music? I never use it, but if I ever touch the soft button on.my right earbud it launches and plays nothing because it has no library or account.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    Absolutely. Applications on macOS are just bundles in the sense they are just a special kind of directory that contains the executable and supporting files. Any application in the Applications directory will require Administrator privileges to delete, but the entire folder can be deleted if you want, including the Utilities folder and all utilities. With SIP disabled and root access, you can delete everything in macOS piece by piece or all at once.
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      No, you can’t, because they’re on a signed system volume that can’t be modified when the system is booted.
as1992 4y ago
In my opinion, its based on the perception of the companies combined with the impact they have on the general consumer market. Eg 70% of phones run Android, only 27% run iOS which makes Google a much better target to go after. Same situation with personal computing, Windows was like 80% of the consumer/business market when the whole browser thing took place. MacOS was something like 5%. Also I've never really heard of someone complain about Safari compared to IE/Edge so maybe there wasn't any traction for something like that Maybe someone has a better/more accurate answer than that but thats just how I've been perceiving it.
- themacguffinman 4y ago
  In the US the marketshare split is closer to 45-55, with iOS having the larger 55% share. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045192/share-of-mobile-operating-systems-in-north-america-by-month/#:~:text=In%20January%202023%2C%20Android%20accounted,other%20than%20Android%20or%20iOS https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045192/share-of-mobile-....
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    I believe in Japan it's closer to 90/10 with 90% being iOS. Depending on the country really the split is very much leaning towards iPhone. And younger generation, sub-30, overwhelmingly prefer iPhone.
- toast0 4y ago
  > Also I've never really heard of someone complain about Safari compared to IE/Edge so maybe there wasn't any traction for something like that. Well, when Apple was letting other people ship hardware with their OS, I don't think they bundled a browser or restricted their hardware partners from bundling one. Also, in those days, Safari didn't exist. I think Apple may have bundled IE 5.5 for a while, but I'm not totally sure. People do complain about Safari being the only browser engine on Mac. But on desktop, might as well have Safari so you can download something else without using the command line; which is also what IE/Edge is good for (especially since windows's ftp command line wasn't very good and ftp is mostly dead)
deleted 4y ago
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_23sd 4y ago
In this case, Apple was sued in a similar fashion and settled in a similar fashion. The settlement website: https://smallappdeveloperassistance.com/ https://smallappdeveloperassistance.com/ Summary of the settlement: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/26/app-store-changes-developer-lawsuit-settlement/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/26/app-store-changes-devel...
- ec109685 4y ago
  The apple settlement is extremely similar to the Google one. You have to click around to see the terms Google agreed to. Funny that when apple announced the changes, they made it sound like they were being altruistic.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    > Funny that when apple announced the changes, they made it sound like they were being altruistic. Apple (and several other big tech companies) do that every time they have to give up a modicum of control or are forced to admit wrongdoing. They will deny critical design glass in their hardware but "altruisticly" open up free repairs for a few months so their customers don't realise they're effectively just making use of their warranty when these flaws come to light. I'm pretty sure they still haven't admitted that the butterfly keyboard was a mistake. Every time a big company pretends to care about their customers, look for lawsuits or product flaws, especially if they're in a duopoly position like Google vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple.

dvngnt_ 4y ago

in Europe they have been. I think they have to open it up at least there in the future along with usb-c

allisdust 4y ago

Because they have cornered the market for top 5% incomes while leaving the rest 95% to their competitors. Since their market share is always less, they always get less scrutiny. Outside of developed world, no one uses apple products unless paid by their workplace (for example mac books) or if they are in the top 1% of their country.

dahfizz 4y ago
This lawsuit only applies to the US, where ios has a majority of the market.
zimspy 4y ago
Or in my social circles they want to appear to be top 1%.

dahfizz 4y ago

They vertically integrated beyond the scope of the law. Microsoft got in trouble for forcing their hardware suppliers to only ship windows machines. By taking the hardware in house, Apple does the same but it's legal. Google loses an antitrust case for monopolizing app stores on Android. By making alternative app stores technically impossible, Apple doesn't have the same issue. It really feels like the went mega-monopoly so hard that the law doesn't apply to them.

Maursault 4y ago
> Microsoft got in trouble for forcing their hardware suppliers to only ship windows machines. Not accurate. They required their licensees to pay a license fee for every machine they sold, whether it was sold with Windows or another OS. This meant that any machine that didn't ship with Windows was burdened with two licensing fees, one to Microsoft and one to whatever other OS provider.
- Aperocky 4y ago
  Interesting, it should be easy enough to track the number of Windows OS being shipped so this is really just Microsoft strong arming the suppliers with monopolistic intent. And punished rightfully so.
shadowgovt 4y ago
> Google loses an antitrust case for monopolizing app stores on Android Note that they didn't lose; they settled. It was in their best interest not to put the question to the courts in the first place. (As, apparnently, did Apple according to adjacent threads).
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> vertically integrated beyond the scope of the law Cupertino plays in the super-premium segment, leaving the value end of the spectrum open to competition.

Maursault 4y ago

> but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in EU. Microsoft was blocking competitors by requiring a fee for every processor sold by a manufacturer that offered Windows, whether that machine was sold with Windows or not, causing any other operating system sold on licensee machines to be more expensive for consumers. It wasn't bundling that was the issue in Microsoft Corp v Commission, it was tying applications together, such that if you purchase one application, you are forced to purchase another. I don't see how it relates. Apple bundles software but does not sell what it bundles, nor even the OS, which is also free, nor is the consumer unable to remove that software or required to pay a licensing fee to Apple whether they run their OS or not, unlike with Microsoft Windows and Explorer. You can delete Safari and every application Apple bundles, including the OS, and you can not purchase it because it's free with the hardware. Apple is not tying applications, and there's nothing anti-competitive with their bundling.

dexterdog 4y ago
Wait, you can delete apple music? I never use it, but if I ever touch the soft button on.my right earbud it launches and plays nothing because it has no library or account.
- Maursault 4y ago
  Absolutely. Applications on macOS are just bundles in the sense they are just a special kind of directory that contains the executable and supporting files. Any application in the Applications directory will require Administrator privileges to delete, but the entire folder can be deleted if you want, including the Utilities folder and all utilities. With SIP disabled and root access, you can delete everything in macOS piece by piece or all at once.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    No, you can’t, because they’re on a signed system volume that can’t be modified when the system is booted.

as1992 4y ago

In my opinion, its based on the perception of the companies combined with the impact they have on the general consumer market. Eg 70% of phones run Android, only 27% run iOS which makes Google a much better target to go after. Same situation with personal computing, Windows was like 80% of the consumer/business market when the whole browser thing took place. MacOS was something like 5%. Also I've never really heard of someone complain about Safari compared to IE/Edge so maybe there wasn't any traction for something like that Maybe someone has a better/more accurate answer than that but thats just how I've been perceiving it.

themacguffinman 4y ago
In the US the marketshare split is closer to 45-55, with iOS having the larger 55% share. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045192/share-of-mobile-operating-systems-in-north-america-by-month/#:~:text=In%20January%202023%2C%20Android%20accounted,other%20than%20Android%20or%20iOS https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045192/share-of-mobile-....
- throwntoday 4y ago
  I believe in Japan it's closer to 90/10 with 90% being iOS. Depending on the country really the split is very much leaning towards iPhone. And younger generation, sub-30, overwhelmingly prefer iPhone.
toast0 4y ago
> Also I've never really heard of someone complain about Safari compared to IE/Edge so maybe there wasn't any traction for something like that. Well, when Apple was letting other people ship hardware with their OS, I don't think they bundled a browser or restricted their hardware partners from bundling one. Also, in those days, Safari didn't exist. I think Apple may have bundled IE 5.5 for a while, but I'm not totally sure. People do complain about Safari being the only browser engine on Mac. But on desktop, might as well have Safari so you can download something else without using the command line; which is also what IE/Edge is good for (especially since windows's ftp command line wasn't very good and ftp is mostly dead)

deleted 4y ago

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deleted 4y ago

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_23sd 4y ago

In this case, Apple was sued in a similar fashion and settled in a similar fashion. The settlement website: https://smallappdeveloperassistance.com/ https://smallappdeveloperassistance.com/ Summary of the settlement: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/26/app-store-changes-developer-lawsuit-settlement/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/26/app-store-changes-devel...

ec109685 4y ago
The apple settlement is extremely similar to the Google one. You have to click around to see the terms Google agreed to. Funny that when apple announced the changes, they made it sound like they were being altruistic.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  > Funny that when apple announced the changes, they made it sound like they were being altruistic. Apple (and several other big tech companies) do that every time they have to give up a modicum of control or are forced to admit wrongdoing. They will deny critical design glass in their hardware but "altruisticly" open up free repairs for a few months so their customers don't realise they're effectively just making use of their warranty when these flaws come to light. I'm pretty sure they still haven't admitted that the butterfly keyboard was a mistake. Every time a big company pretends to care about their customers, look for lawsuits or product flaws, especially if they're in a duopoly position like Google vs Apple or Microsoft vs Apple.