4 ms·

Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently, but I feel like a cop could pretty easily shoehorn someone doing so into another offense cate

Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently, but I feel like a cop could pretty easily shoehorn someone doing so into another offense category.... Like disorderly something or inciting something. https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-cro... https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-series-yelling-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-serie...

arcticbull 4y ago
I'd add popehat's write-up to the list. https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apologia-for-censorship-are-enough/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  That article doesn't even purport to address the question of whether shouting fire in a theater is punishable. It says you shouldn't use that fact to support your arguments in favor of punishing other speech.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
thaumasiotes 4y ago
> Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently Yeah, there are a number of those. But they never actually contradict the claim. They point out that it's perfectly legal to shout "fire" if the theater is on fire, as if everyone using the analogy were confused.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  There's a crowded theater and nothing is on fire. You shout "fire!". Someone yells back "shutup! the movie is on!" You have not committed a crime, other than talking during a movie.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    That's because you need to cause damage. The same actions by you do constitute a crime if somebody believes you.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      You shout "Ennui!" in a crowded theater. Everyone is struck by ennui. People cry and gnash teeth. There is a stampede of people. The movie is ruined. Counselors and meditation teachers have to be deployed. You are very likely looking at criminal charges! How can this be?
      - thaumasiotes 4y ago
        It can't be; there is no risk that people will panic upon hearing "ennui".
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        It doesn't matter what you shout. "Fire!", "Ennui!" or "Robot snakes!" It matters whether or not if you cause damage. If you cause a riot wordlessly.. you can still be at fault for a crime. A man, holding a salmon, shoots a woman. Is the man a murderer? What if he's holding a tuna? That's the same as the shouting fire example. It doesn't matter what fish the murderer is holding, it doesn't matter what you yell if you do a crime.
        samstave 4y ago
        So, uh... where can I get more of them robot snakes? --Dave Chappele
        thaumasiotes 4y ago
        You don't seem to know much about the law involved here.
        4y ago
vorpalhex 4y ago
1. Yelling "Fire" is not an offense. Especially if there is a fire, but even if not. 2. If you cause damage to property, you may be liable - especially if you do so for no reason as opposed to eg escaping a burning building. (2) is not dependent on some special word you have to shout. If you shout "Ah robotic snakes!" (falsely) and cause damage to people and property, then you have in fact caused damage to people and property. You will probably need to atone for that.

arcticbull 4y ago

I'd add popehat's write-up to the list. https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apologia-for-censorship-are-enough/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

thaumasiotes 4y ago
That article doesn't even purport to address the question of whether shouting fire in a theater is punishable. It says you shouldn't use that fact to support your arguments in favor of punishing other speech.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently Yeah, there are a number of those. But they never actually contradict the claim. They point out that it's perfectly legal to shout "fire" if the theater is on fire, as if everyone using the analogy were confused.

vorpalhex 4y ago
There's a crowded theater and nothing is on fire. You shout "fire!". Someone yells back "shutup! the movie is on!" You have not committed a crime, other than talking during a movie.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  That's because you need to cause damage. The same actions by you do constitute a crime if somebody believes you.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    You shout "Ennui!" in a crowded theater. Everyone is struck by ennui. People cry and gnash teeth. There is a stampede of people. The movie is ruined. Counselors and meditation teachers have to be deployed. You are very likely looking at criminal charges! How can this be?
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      It can't be; there is no risk that people will panic upon hearing "ennui".
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        It doesn't matter what you shout. "Fire!", "Ennui!" or "Robot snakes!" It matters whether or not if you cause damage. If you cause a riot wordlessly.. you can still be at fault for a crime. A man, holding a salmon, shoots a woman. Is the man a murderer? What if he's holding a tuna? That's the same as the shouting fire example. It doesn't matter what fish the murderer is holding, it doesn't matter what you yell if you do a crime.
        samstave 4y ago
        So, uh... where can I get more of them robot snakes? --Dave Chappele
        thaumasiotes 4y ago
        You don't seem to know much about the law involved here.
        4y ago

vorpalhex 4y ago

1. Yelling "Fire" is not an offense. Especially if there is a fire, but even if not. 2. If you cause damage to property, you may be liable - especially if you do so for no reason as opposed to eg escaping a burning building. (2) is not dependent on some special word you have to shout. If you shout "Ah robotic snakes!" (falsely) and cause damage to people and property, then you have in fact caused damage to people and property. You will probably need to atone for that.