5 ms·

I feel like this is generally far too small of a fine for something this serious. A deliberate use of an emergency signal to further an advertising campaign, es

I feel like this is generally far too small of a fine for something this serious. A deliberate use of an emergency signal to further an advertising campaign, especially an emergency signal that is literally designed to hijack neighbouring radio stations (though I’m not reading that this happened in this case) seems like a pretty egregious thing, and should result in a fine big enough to be noticeable on the balance sheets. I agree with some of the other commentators here that we should go further and ban things like car horns and brake squeals etc in radio programming (where a large number of listeners are driving and noises like that could result in fatal collisions). I feel like a 500k fine would be justifiable for a car horn or similar, not a “prepare for a serious threat to life” emergency signal that is meant to sound very distinctive. If I went to a public building and played a plausible sounding fake fire alarm over a megaphone I would almost certainly be arrested. They did this but to potentially millions of people.

ericmay 4y ago
Yea I agree. Something like $504,000 per second might be better.
- costco 4y ago
  I'd rather a $500,000 fine that actually gets collected than the ridiculous approach we take to spam calls where we fine people [9 figures](https://commsrisk.com/more-enormous-fines-proposed-for-robocallers-who-never-paid-their-previous-fines/ https://commsrisk.com/more-enormous-fines-proposed-for-roboc...) and make no attempt to collect it. TCPA's $1500/call sounds great but in actuality no one has have ever paid anything close to that and the spammers don't have anywhere near the amount of money to do that.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Sure, really we just need law enforcement to do its job here. I'm not sure why they don't. I've had a lot of issues with spam calls that began only when my mom became terminally ill and I was assisting her. They'd call "this is senior aide helper" (among others) and would call "verified" from the carrier with local numbers. I can't imagine how many Americans who are dealing with trouble in their lives are being scammed here. The FCC should fine the telecom companies $1,500/reported spam call. That would stop this over night. I don't know who is paying who to prevent us from stopping this, but it sure as fucking hell looks to me like people in our government don't give a damn about citizens.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
It's an obscure mistake. The fine is a message. The deterrent is the fine for repeat violations, which would be higher.
- tdeck 4y ago
  Is it an obscure mistake? I don't know anyone who works in broadcasting and I know about the EAS tones and that they're reserved for an emergency. I would expect a network to have at least this minimal knowledge and to review content they broadcast.
  - elecush 4y ago
    Seems calculated and the fine should probably be 10x
samstave 4y ago
Hasn't yelling "FIRE" in any venue been a really punishable crime for many a decade?
- kylecazar 4y ago
  Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently, but I feel like a cop could pretty easily shoehorn someone doing so into another offense category.... Like disorderly something or inciting something. https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-cro... https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-series-yelling-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-serie...
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    I'd add popehat's write-up to the list. https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apologia-for-censorship-are-enough/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      That article doesn't even purport to address the question of whether shouting fire in a theater is punishable. It says you shouldn't use that fact to support your arguments in favor of punishing other speech.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently Yeah, there are a number of those. But they never actually contradict the claim. They point out that it's perfectly legal to shout "fire" if the theater is on fire, as if everyone using the analogy were confused.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwanem 4y ago
The attention tone is for human consumption. The SAME header (the "chirps" of FSK-encoded data that precede the attention tone in an EAS broadcast) is the machine-readable part, and what will activate EAS receivers and cause broadcast interruptions in downstream stations.
derekp7 4y ago
> we should go further and ban things like car horns and brake squeals While I agree with this in general, you need to be careful that songs like the "Nash Rambler" song wouldn't be banned. Same with a lot of other 50's - 60's hot rod songs that feature intros with tires squealing or car horns, etc. Maybe apply this only to advertisements but not to songs? But then again if it is unexpected it could be just as jarring if it is a new song you haven't heard before.
toss1 4y ago
Yup. This is literally poisoning the well of public discourse. They should be adding a few zeros and pulling licenses.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  >literally poisoning the well of public discourse But that's Fox's bread and butter, it's what they do best!

ericmay 4y ago

Yea I agree. Something like $504,000 per second might be better.

costco 4y ago
I'd rather a $500,000 fine that actually gets collected than the ridiculous approach we take to spam calls where we fine people [9 figures](https://commsrisk.com/more-enormous-fines-proposed-for-robocallers-who-never-paid-their-previous-fines/ https://commsrisk.com/more-enormous-fines-proposed-for-roboc...) and make no attempt to collect it. TCPA's $1500/call sounds great but in actuality no one has have ever paid anything close to that and the spammers don't have anywhere near the amount of money to do that.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Sure, really we just need law enforcement to do its job here. I'm not sure why they don't. I've had a lot of issues with spam calls that began only when my mom became terminally ill and I was assisting her. They'd call "this is senior aide helper" (among others) and would call "verified" from the carrier with local numbers. I can't imagine how many Americans who are dealing with trouble in their lives are being scammed here. The FCC should fine the telecom companies $1,500/reported spam call. That would stop this over night. I don't know who is paying who to prevent us from stopping this, but it sure as fucking hell looks to me like people in our government don't give a damn about citizens.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

It's an obscure mistake. The fine is a message. The deterrent is the fine for repeat violations, which would be higher.

tdeck 4y ago
Is it an obscure mistake? I don't know anyone who works in broadcasting and I know about the EAS tones and that they're reserved for an emergency. I would expect a network to have at least this minimal knowledge and to review content they broadcast.
- elecush 4y ago
  Seems calculated and the fine should probably be 10x

samstave 4y ago

Hasn't yelling "FIRE" in any venue been a really punishable crime for many a decade?

kylecazar 4y ago
Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently, but I feel like a cop could pretty easily shoehorn someone doing so into another offense category.... Like disorderly something or inciting something. https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://reason.com/2022/10/27/yes-you-can-yell-fire-in-a-cro... https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-series-yelling-fire-in-a-crowded-theater/ https://www.whalenlawoffice.com/blog/legal-mythbusting-serie...
- arcticbull 4y ago
  I'd add popehat's write-up to the list. https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apologia-for-censorship-are-enough/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    That article doesn't even purport to address the question of whether shouting fire in a theater is punishable. It says you shouldn't use that fact to support your arguments in favor of punishing other speech.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Coincidentally I've seen a few articles "debunking" this recently Yeah, there are a number of those. But they never actually contradict the claim. They point out that it's perfectly legal to shout "fire" if the theater is on fire, as if everyone using the analogy were confused.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwanem 4y ago

The attention tone is for human consumption. The SAME header (the "chirps" of FSK-encoded data that precede the attention tone in an EAS broadcast) is the machine-readable part, and what will activate EAS receivers and cause broadcast interruptions in downstream stations.

derekp7 4y ago

> we should go further and ban things like car horns and brake squeals While I agree with this in general, you need to be careful that songs like the "Nash Rambler" song wouldn't be banned. Same with a lot of other 50's - 60's hot rod songs that feature intros with tires squealing or car horns, etc. Maybe apply this only to advertisements but not to songs? But then again if it is unexpected it could be just as jarring if it is a new song you haven't heard before.

toss1 4y ago

Yup. This is literally poisoning the well of public discourse. They should be adding a few zeros and pulling licenses.

kevviiinn 4y ago
>literally poisoning the well of public discourse But that's Fox's bread and butter, it's what they do best!