4 ms·

Some of the original flat earth theorists seem to just be playing around, having fun with the idea of scientific authority. One of them explained gravity by pos

by neilk 4y ago

Some of the original flat earth theorists seem to just be playing around, having fun with the idea of scientific authority. One of them explained gravity by positing the earth was a flat disk accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s^2, forever. Where is the energy coming from? Why isn’t the atmosphere stripped away? Why isn’t earth white hot or achieving relativistic speeds? These problems can be dealt with enough special pleading and creative physics. They can stay one step ahead of their critics, forever. I got very into studying flat earthers for a while. The fundamental contradiction is that they claim to be resisting authority but for their claims to work you have to take more and more on faith and accept that there are unresolvable mysteries. Which is actually what they’re more comfortable with! They are usually in some sort of cult, or an authoritarian version of a mainstream religion.

chungy 4y ago
I've never been sufficiently convinced that most "flat earthers" are actually serious about it. The movement seems to consist of a large ratio of people claiming such just to troll.
- mistermann 4y ago
  That's my intuition too, I think it's hilarious how worked up people get.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    There is another group that uses the same tactics.... >“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” The issue with a group that plays idiot, is they attract a lot of idiots.
    - chungy 4y ago
      Flat-earthers aren't by their nature demonizing and dehumanizing groups of people. If done in sincerity, they merely disagree with consensus about the nature of the planet we're on. It's quite a drastic change from that to anti-semitism.
      - soco 4y ago
        But are the flatearthers spreading just this one fringe theory? Because once riding the conspiracy train there's usually lots of extra luggage...
        mojo74 4y ago
        Agreed. What I can never understand is where the conspiracy train bifurcates. By and large we would all accept a forest exists but not these guys: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/flat-earth-truthers/499322/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/flat-ear... It must be exhausting being them.
        soco 4y ago
        The video mentioned there claims to "reverse your concept of forests by 360 degrees". You read it right, reverse "by 360 degrees". Are we sure it's not a huge and successful practical joke? Although by the amount of people falling for it, it cant be really called joke anymore... at some point making fun of stupid ceases to be fun and gets actually frightening.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        Poe's law applies, of course.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        I was linked to this video a little while back in a different context and without foreknowledge that it was certified crackpottery. I was led to believe it was merely wild speculation fringe stuff, which I'm kinda into. Anyway, it was ringing crackpot alarms almost immediately. I didn't even have to scrutinize the claims (they don't hold up even a little, natch), the way the claims were presented was sufficient. I wonder what it is that makes some people deaf to the heuristics most of us are able to employ against this kind of nonsense.
- mbfg 4y ago
  And certainly now there is youtube monetization to keep you going promoting flat earths.
cuteboy19 4y ago
Maybe Einstein can help? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle It's not clear why gravity needs to be "explained" in such a manner though. Nothing about our current theories of gravity requires the gravitational body to not be flat
- freitzkriesler 4y ago
  Keep it simpler, these are people who don't understand mirages.
- raattgift 4y ago
  > Nothing about our current theories of gravity requires the gravitational body to not be flat On the contrary the bulk behaviour of the source matter demands an ellipsoidal Earth: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_equilibrium#Derivation_from_general_relativity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_equilibrium#Deriva...>. One might attempt to banish magma, lava, and other indicators of fluid flow (the oceans, the atmosphere, planetary differentiation generally) and imagine an infinitely rigid lipped/walled plate underneath. However, then: An eternally-accelerating flat plate does not generate the Weyl curvature tensor which a set of plumb bobs or zero-length springs can measure. Even before General Relativity, such measurements were undertaken and characterized as smooth functions of distance from the Equator less than sixty years after Newton e.g. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairaut%27s_theorem_(gravity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairaut%27s_theorem_(gravity)>.

by neilk 4y ago

chungy 4y ago

I've never been sufficiently convinced that most "flat earthers" are actually serious about it. The movement seems to consist of a large ratio of people claiming such just to troll.

mistermann 4y ago
That's my intuition too, I think it's hilarious how worked up people get.
- pixl97 4y ago
  There is another group that uses the same tactics.... >“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” The issue with a group that plays idiot, is they attract a lot of idiots.
  - chungy 4y ago
    Flat-earthers aren't by their nature demonizing and dehumanizing groups of people. If done in sincerity, they merely disagree with consensus about the nature of the planet we're on. It's quite a drastic change from that to anti-semitism.
    - soco 4y ago
      But are the flatearthers spreading just this one fringe theory? Because once riding the conspiracy train there's usually lots of extra luggage...
      - mojo74 4y ago
        Agreed. What I can never understand is where the conspiracy train bifurcates. By and large we would all accept a forest exists but not these guys: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/flat-earth-truthers/499322/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/flat-ear... It must be exhausting being them.
        soco 4y ago
        The video mentioned there claims to "reverse your concept of forests by 360 degrees". You read it right, reverse "by 360 degrees". Are we sure it's not a huge and successful practical joke? Although by the amount of people falling for it, it cant be really called joke anymore... at some point making fun of stupid ceases to be fun and gets actually frightening.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        Poe's law applies, of course.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        I was linked to this video a little while back in a different context and without foreknowledge that it was certified crackpottery. I was led to believe it was merely wild speculation fringe stuff, which I'm kinda into. Anyway, it was ringing crackpot alarms almost immediately. I didn't even have to scrutinize the claims (they don't hold up even a little, natch), the way the claims were presented was sufficient. I wonder what it is that makes some people deaf to the heuristics most of us are able to employ against this kind of nonsense.
mbfg 4y ago
And certainly now there is youtube monetization to keep you going promoting flat earths.

cuteboy19 4y ago

Maybe Einstein can help? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle It's not clear why gravity needs to be "explained" in such a manner though. Nothing about our current theories of gravity requires the gravitational body to not be flat

freitzkriesler 4y ago
Keep it simpler, these are people who don't understand mirages.
raattgift 4y ago
> Nothing about our current theories of gravity requires the gravitational body to not be flat On the contrary the bulk behaviour of the source matter demands an ellipsoidal Earth: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_equilibrium#Derivation_from_general_relativity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_equilibrium#Deriva...>. One might attempt to banish magma, lava, and other indicators of fluid flow (the oceans, the atmosphere, planetary differentiation generally) and imagine an infinitely rigid lipped/walled plate underneath. However, then: An eternally-accelerating flat plate does not generate the Weyl curvature tensor which a set of plumb bobs or zero-length springs can measure. Even before General Relativity, such measurements were undertaken and characterized as smooth functions of distance from the Equator less than sixty years after Newton e.g. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairaut%27s_theorem_(gravity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairaut%27s_theorem_(gravity)>.