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I'm not sure why this is that scary of a thought. Right now law enforcement already has a "killswitch": a traffic stop. If you don't stop at the traffic stop,

by flaque 4y ago

I'm not sure why this is that scary of a thought. Right now law enforcement already has a "killswitch": a traffic stop. If you don't stop at the traffic stop, the "killswitch" is a chase & spikes on the road. A "killswitch" in which someone can just have the car pull-over seems like objectively safer.

BurningFrog 4y ago
Once there is a killswitch, it can be accessed by people and purposes it wasn't intended for.
- williamcotton 4y ago
  Think this through. Like, really, think this through. What’s the goal? You want to steel a car? Rob the passengers? Kidnap the passengers? Kill the passengers? So what are your options in this world where there is the equivalent of a firefighters key in elevator, but probably using PKE and periodic private key cycling? Steal a key? From where? Buy one? From who and for how much? Ok, so now you’re needing to commit some rather risky crimes before you even move onto the next step. And then let’s say you get the key. So you disable a taxi. And then what? I assume the passengers can lock the doors. So you smash the window open and, well, maybe it’s best to have a gun… But why not just get a gun and approach someone stuck at a red light? Why kind of risk/reward calculus is going on inside the mind of the criminal deciding to forcibly stop a moving vehicle and rob or murder the passengers? So yes, what you said is true, but the likelihood is very low and the benefit to emergency responders is high. I guess it makes for a good plot device for a spy movie.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    I was thinking more that I pissed off a cop, and now my car randomly won't start.
    - williamcotton 4y ago
      Well if I was working on such a system I would definitely want to log every shutdown event on storage in the vehicle itself. It could then be seen what key was used and compared to which officer had been assigned that key for the day at the beginning of their shift. So yes, a pissed off (and stupid) cop could do this, but then you can turn around and go to the press with the information, call up a lawyer, and proceed in any other manner where you're being harassed by a police officer. Cue some unrelated critique on policing in general that has nothing to do with what we're talking about...
      - BurningFrog 4y ago
        I guess we have different beliefs around how easy it is to fight back against government abuse. I don't think you just contact a journalist and a lawyer, and things usually work out for the best.
        williamcotton 4y ago
        As predicted, some unrelated critique on policing in general that has nothing to do with what we're talking about... The problem with your line of reasoning is that you really have a problem with government abuse and that you're looking for anything that could possibly add to government abuse even in the smallest of manners. There's no scalar to your concept of abusive systems, just the fact that any system that could be used for government abuse is bad. It leaves out the intent and capabilities of the government to engage in any kind of abuse. If the government wanted to silence you then it would silence you like they would in any authoritarian nation: showing up to your front door, putting a bag over your head, and taking you away. They don't need any advanced technology to do so. Technologies are not the main cause authoritarianism. People are the main cause. Technologies can facilitate authoritarianism or they can facilitate liberal democratic republics. Can a system of warranted entry on private property be abused so that police can enter your house in an unjust manner? Of course! But the presence of a system of warranted entry on private property does not correlate to the authoritarian government.

by flaque 4y ago

BurningFrog 4y ago

Once there is a killswitch, it can be accessed by people and purposes it wasn't intended for.

williamcotton 4y ago
Think this through. Like, really, think this through. What’s the goal? You want to steel a car? Rob the passengers? Kidnap the passengers? Kill the passengers? So what are your options in this world where there is the equivalent of a firefighters key in elevator, but probably using PKE and periodic private key cycling? Steal a key? From where? Buy one? From who and for how much? Ok, so now you’re needing to commit some rather risky crimes before you even move onto the next step. And then let’s say you get the key. So you disable a taxi. And then what? I assume the passengers can lock the doors. So you smash the window open and, well, maybe it’s best to have a gun… But why not just get a gun and approach someone stuck at a red light? Why kind of risk/reward calculus is going on inside the mind of the criminal deciding to forcibly stop a moving vehicle and rob or murder the passengers? So yes, what you said is true, but the likelihood is very low and the benefit to emergency responders is high. I guess it makes for a good plot device for a spy movie.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  I was thinking more that I pissed off a cop, and now my car randomly won't start.
  - williamcotton 4y ago
    Well if I was working on such a system I would definitely want to log every shutdown event on storage in the vehicle itself. It could then be seen what key was used and compared to which officer had been assigned that key for the day at the beginning of their shift. So yes, a pissed off (and stupid) cop could do this, but then you can turn around and go to the press with the information, call up a lawyer, and proceed in any other manner where you're being harassed by a police officer. Cue some unrelated critique on policing in general that has nothing to do with what we're talking about...
    - BurningFrog 4y ago
      I guess we have different beliefs around how easy it is to fight back against government abuse. I don't think you just contact a journalist and a lawyer, and things usually work out for the best.
      - williamcotton 4y ago
        As predicted, some unrelated critique on policing in general that has nothing to do with what we're talking about... The problem with your line of reasoning is that you really have a problem with government abuse and that you're looking for anything that could possibly add to government abuse even in the smallest of manners. There's no scalar to your concept of abusive systems, just the fact that any system that could be used for government abuse is bad. It leaves out the intent and capabilities of the government to engage in any kind of abuse. If the government wanted to silence you then it would silence you like they would in any authoritarian nation: showing up to your front door, putting a bag over your head, and taking you away. They don't need any advanced technology to do so. Technologies are not the main cause authoritarianism. People are the main cause. Technologies can facilitate authoritarianism or they can facilitate liberal democratic republics. Can a system of warranted entry on private property be abused so that police can enter your house in an unjust manner? Of course! But the presence of a system of warranted entry on private property does not correlate to the authoritarian government.