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> We wouldn't have acted Yup. Even the folks I know who regularly post about the dangers of climate change still make frequent use of commercial flight to take

by tharne 4y ago

> We wouldn't have acted Yup. Even the folks I know who regularly post about the dangers of climate change still make frequent use of commercial flight to take unnecessary trips, usually vacations. If Exxon had published their findings in the 70's, the only thing it would have gotten us is a few more decades of hand-wringing and empty virtue signaling.

landemva 4y ago
The new lux is private charter flight.
atonse 4y ago
it’s a distraction to ask people to change when we don’t force industry to change. They are by far the worst offenders.
- tharne 4y ago
  > It’s a distraction to ask people to change when we don’t force industry to change. It's not. Having folks like Bernie Sanders or AOC telling us that we're all going to die unless we drastically cut our emissions is not very convincing when they themselves are gleefully hoping on a commercial jet 2 or more times a week. It's hard for people to take something seriously when the very people sounding the alarm aren't willing to make even the most basic sacrifices. So you're correct that we can't meaningfully reduce emissions unless we force industry to change, but we're also not going to have much success advocating for those kinds of laws unless people are the top are willing to show a basic level of moral courage and leadership.
  - atonse 4y ago
    You’re right that for a large swath of private jet owners, their use of the private jet vastly outweighs the benefits of what they do with that jet. (Like an extreme example of an exception being someone like Al Gore)
melling 4y ago
Commercial flights are a rounding error. Why even bring them up? one year of coal power plants is about 10 years of all aviation
- defrost 4y ago
  For context: Global aviation (including domestic and international; passenger and freight) accounts for 2.5% of CO2 emissions and 3.5% of ‘effective radiative forcing’ (a closer measure of its impact on warming) [1]. which is low but NOT not "a rounding error" in the global context. The main reasons to look at aviation are that much of it slips through the fingers a it is "international" and not specific to single countries AND that the impact of aviation is rapidly increasing (albeit relatively stable against the qually rapid per capia overall emissions growth). How we consume and how we consume per capita are the big picture questions to be addressed, both population numbers and per capita emissions are growing. That said I think many agree that the old "why should I do anything when all these people are flying .." is a tedious lazy arguement. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation
  - raffraffraff 4y ago
    Low emission energy= nuclear, solar, wind, hydro Low emission home heating= heatpump (air, ground, water) Low emission ground travel= train, EV Low emission flight= Zeppelin?
  - melling 4y ago
    Coal power plants are currently generating 20% emissions, and I imagine that’s a decrease. So, over the past 50 years, … If we made it go away 50 years ago, … But hey, let’s keep talking about aviation
    - defrost 4y ago
      I absolutely 100% agree with you - both coal* AND aviation contribute to the climate problem so let's talk about both. Check the IPCC reports, the margins of change require we address both, we are serious here after all and not simply hoping to greenwish inadequate changes magically solve everything.

by tharne 4y ago

landemva 4y ago

The new lux is private charter flight.

atonse 4y ago

it’s a distraction to ask people to change when we don’t force industry to change. They are by far the worst offenders.

tharne 4y ago
> It’s a distraction to ask people to change when we don’t force industry to change. It's not. Having folks like Bernie Sanders or AOC telling us that we're all going to die unless we drastically cut our emissions is not very convincing when they themselves are gleefully hoping on a commercial jet 2 or more times a week. It's hard for people to take something seriously when the very people sounding the alarm aren't willing to make even the most basic sacrifices. So you're correct that we can't meaningfully reduce emissions unless we force industry to change, but we're also not going to have much success advocating for those kinds of laws unless people are the top are willing to show a basic level of moral courage and leadership.
- atonse 4y ago
  You’re right that for a large swath of private jet owners, their use of the private jet vastly outweighs the benefits of what they do with that jet. (Like an extreme example of an exception being someone like Al Gore)

melling 4y ago

Commercial flights are a rounding error. Why even bring them up? one year of coal power plants is about 10 years of all aviation

defrost 4y ago
For context: Global aviation (including domestic and international; passenger and freight) accounts for 2.5% of CO2 emissions and 3.5% of ‘effective radiative forcing’ (a closer measure of its impact on warming) [1]. which is low but NOT not "a rounding error" in the global context. The main reasons to look at aviation are that much of it slips through the fingers a it is "international" and not specific to single countries AND that the impact of aviation is rapidly increasing (albeit relatively stable against the qually rapid per capia overall emissions growth). How we consume and how we consume per capita are the big picture questions to be addressed, both population numbers and per capita emissions are growing. That said I think many agree that the old "why should I do anything when all these people are flying .." is a tedious lazy arguement. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  Low emission energy= nuclear, solar, wind, hydro Low emission home heating= heatpump (air, ground, water) Low emission ground travel= train, EV Low emission flight= Zeppelin?
- melling 4y ago
  Coal power plants are currently generating 20% emissions, and I imagine that’s a decrease. So, over the past 50 years, … If we made it go away 50 years ago, … But hey, let’s keep talking about aviation
  - defrost 4y ago
    I absolutely 100% agree with you - both coal* AND aviation contribute to the climate problem so let's talk about both. Check the IPCC reports, the margins of change require we address both, we are serious here after all and not simply hoping to greenwish inadequate changes magically solve everything.