5 ms·

Unless you have data to show that Tesla is uniquely bad here, your post comes off as nothing other than a smear, especially with the "whataboutism" epithet.

dragontamer 4y ago
Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet. This is a very different problem. Ford is proactively trying to prevent steering wheels from becoming a problem publicly. In contrast, Tesla waits for it to be a problem before issuing a recall. Case in point: instead of showing a news article about Ford steering wheels falling off, they listed an article discussing a hypothetical "might fall off" recall. Do you see why these two stories are completely different? EDIT: Case in point: how long do you think it will be before Tesla issues a recall over this? Can Tesla even track its manufacturing errors and which batch of vehicles are affected by this problem?
- rascul 4y ago
  > Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet. Seems like steering wheels had already fallen off before they issued the recall. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-steering-wheel-recall/423535002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-st...
- colordrops 4y ago
  You are basing this off of this single event? Once again, do you have data that steering wheels are falling off Teslas in numbers?
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    I'm basing this off of Tesla's awful history. Multiple people have burned to death as those silly electronic locks fail and when the car catches on fire. Has there been any recall to fix this issue? No. Multiple people have died as 'Full Self Driving' has collided into walls and trucks. Has there been a recall? No . Multiple safety critical issues have hit this company over and over again, and they do nothing about it. I can say that Tesla will ignore this problem too.
    - colordrops 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - dragontamer 4y ago
        > in comparison to other car companies. That's quite the strawman, isn't it? You're the only one who cares about the problem "compared to others". I for one, am tired of seeing people burn to death inside of Teslas. But maybe that's just me. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/driver-was-behind-wheel-at-time-of-tesla-crash-in-texas-ntsb-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/driver-was-behind-wheel-... https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-in-a-burning-tesla-because-its-futuristic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges.html https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-i... https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-jury-awards-10-5m-in-case-of-teens-killed-in-fiery-tesla-crash/ https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-jury-awards-10-5m-... We all know that the electronic locks fail when the battery explodes in flames. We also know that Tesla cars manual override is rather... difficult. But go on, research the issue on your own if you don't believe me. Try to figure out the manual overload yourself. Seriously, it could save your life, so you really should look for it and train to use it. ---------- BTW: We're up to 50 confirmed Tesla Fire fatalities. https://www.tesla-fire.com/ https://www.tesla-fire.com/ And a LOT of these have the same issue. Car crashes, doors stop working. People don't know how to use the manual override and either burn to death, or break a window to escape. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-tesla-driver-kicks-out-window-to-escape-car-fire-1.5914147 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-tesla-driver-kicks-out-window-to-e... There's been no recall, no safety notice, no nothing. This keeps happening over-and-over-and-over again. I don't know what the NHTSA is doing on this matter, but the number of cases continues to rise higher and higher. So yes. When I hear "Tesla has another safety issue", I'm more inclined to believe that its Tesla's fault and they're covering something up. After all, they're obviously covering up this Fire + Door issue and have been for years.
        colordrops 4y ago
        [flagged]
michael_nielsen 4y ago
It's textbook whataboutism.
- rndmize 4y ago
  Providing context is whataboutism now?
  - smt88 4y ago
    Yes. "Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). It's a dismissal of valid criticism. In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
    - colordrops 4y ago
      The problem is that more often than not, accusations of whataboutism are used against people pointing out unfair/invalid criticism that is not taking the a comprehensive view of the situation or agendas of interested parties into account.
      - smt88 4y ago
        A steering wheel should never fall off a car while it's driving. Period. Millions upon millions of cars have been sold and driven for hundreds of billions of miles without losing a steering wheel. It's notable that a Tesla lost one, no Teslas have been recalled, and Tesla's support has been terrible/insane about this (and many other quality issues). > agendas of interested parties into account The Twitter OP's "agenda" was to buy an expensive car that had a securely-attached steering wheel.
    - rndmize 4y ago
      > "Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). That's not what it is. Whataboutism is generally an effort to paint someone making an argument as hypocritical by citing other incidents that are similar and by drawing attention away from the original argument, eg. Republicans are bad because X; what about Democrats that do X? The top comment isn't saying this is acceptable because other car companies do this. They're saying this is a manufacturing defect, and as is often the case when manufacturing items in the millions, defects happen. Mistakes get made. And unless the statistics of an incident are known, a single isolated data point tells us very little, and attempting to draw general conclusions from it is bad practice at best. Further, I wouldn't expect to hear about recalls about steering wheels from other car companies (unless it was a very common issue), or incidents where their cars caught fire, or just crashes in general - and yet it seems articles crop up regularly about such events as they apply to Teslas. Going by media attention alone, one would expect Teslas to be 10x less reliable as any other car, which just doesn't seem to be the case. > In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue. Dude, it's been _one day_. Literally. The Ford recall article notes "The automaker says it is aware of two accidents and one injury that may have been caused by the problem." So far for this case, we have one incident and no accidents. I'm genuinely curious how many incident reports Ford received before they decided to do the recall - but its pretty obvious its more than a single case. It isn't whataboutism to expect the same standards to be applied to all car companies.

dragontamer 4y ago

Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet. This is a very different problem. Ford is proactively trying to prevent steering wheels from becoming a problem publicly. In contrast, Tesla waits for it to be a problem before issuing a recall. Case in point: instead of showing a news article about Ford steering wheels falling off, they listed an article discussing a hypothetical "might fall off" recall. Do you see why these two stories are completely different? EDIT: Case in point: how long do you think it will be before Tesla issues a recall over this? Can Tesla even track its manufacturing errors and which batch of vehicles are affected by this problem?

rascul 4y ago
> Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet. Seems like steering wheels had already fallen off before they issued the recall. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-steering-wheel-recall/423535002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-st...
colordrops 4y ago
You are basing this off of this single event? Once again, do you have data that steering wheels are falling off Teslas in numbers?
- dragontamer 4y ago
  I'm basing this off of Tesla's awful history. Multiple people have burned to death as those silly electronic locks fail and when the car catches on fire. Has there been any recall to fix this issue? No. Multiple people have died as 'Full Self Driving' has collided into walls and trucks. Has there been a recall? No . Multiple safety critical issues have hit this company over and over again, and they do nothing about it. I can say that Tesla will ignore this problem too.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      > in comparison to other car companies. That's quite the strawman, isn't it? You're the only one who cares about the problem "compared to others". I for one, am tired of seeing people burn to death inside of Teslas. But maybe that's just me. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/driver-was-behind-wheel-at-time-of-tesla-crash-in-texas-ntsb-says https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/driver-was-behind-wheel-... https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-in-a-burning-tesla-because-its-futuristic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges.html https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-i... https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-jury-awards-10-5m-in-case-of-teens-killed-in-fiery-tesla-crash/ https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/florida-jury-awards-10-5m-... We all know that the electronic locks fail when the battery explodes in flames. We also know that Tesla cars manual override is rather... difficult. But go on, research the issue on your own if you don't believe me. Try to figure out the manual overload yourself. Seriously, it could save your life, so you really should look for it and train to use it. ---------- BTW: We're up to 50 confirmed Tesla Fire fatalities. https://www.tesla-fire.com/ https://www.tesla-fire.com/ And a LOT of these have the same issue. Car crashes, doors stop working. People don't know how to use the manual override and either burn to death, or break a window to escape. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-tesla-driver-kicks-out-window-to-escape-car-fire-1.5914147 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-tesla-driver-kicks-out-window-to-e... There's been no recall, no safety notice, no nothing. This keeps happening over-and-over-and-over again. I don't know what the NHTSA is doing on this matter, but the number of cases continues to rise higher and higher. So yes. When I hear "Tesla has another safety issue", I'm more inclined to believe that its Tesla's fault and they're covering something up. After all, they're obviously covering up this Fire + Door issue and have been for years.
      - colordrops 4y ago
        [flagged]

michael_nielsen 4y ago

It's textbook whataboutism.

rndmize 4y ago
Providing context is whataboutism now?
- smt88 4y ago
  Yes. "Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). It's a dismissal of valid criticism. In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    The problem is that more often than not, accusations of whataboutism are used against people pointing out unfair/invalid criticism that is not taking the a comprehensive view of the situation or agendas of interested parties into account.
    - smt88 4y ago
      A steering wheel should never fall off a car while it's driving. Period. Millions upon millions of cars have been sold and driven for hundreds of billions of miles without losing a steering wheel. It's notable that a Tesla lost one, no Teslas have been recalled, and Tesla's support has been terrible/insane about this (and many other quality issues). > agendas of interested parties into account The Twitter OP's "agenda" was to buy an expensive car that had a securely-attached steering wheel.
  - rndmize 4y ago
    > "Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). That's not what it is. Whataboutism is generally an effort to paint someone making an argument as hypocritical by citing other incidents that are similar and by drawing attention away from the original argument, eg. Republicans are bad because X; what about Democrats that do X? The top comment isn't saying this is acceptable because other car companies do this. They're saying this is a manufacturing defect, and as is often the case when manufacturing items in the millions, defects happen. Mistakes get made. And unless the statistics of an incident are known, a single isolated data point tells us very little, and attempting to draw general conclusions from it is bad practice at best. Further, I wouldn't expect to hear about recalls about steering wheels from other car companies (unless it was a very common issue), or incidents where their cars caught fire, or just crashes in general - and yet it seems articles crop up regularly about such events as they apply to Teslas. Going by media attention alone, one would expect Teslas to be 10x less reliable as any other car, which just doesn't seem to be the case. > In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue. Dude, it's been _one day_. Literally. The Ford recall article notes "The automaker says it is aware of two accidents and one injury that may have been caused by the problem." So far for this case, we have one incident and no accidents. I'm genuinely curious how many incident reports Ford received before they decided to do the recall - but its pretty obvious its more than a single case. It isn't whataboutism to expect the same standards to be applied to all car companies.