5 ms·

Agreed - faking an emergency is highly frowned upon and I'm betting it's a crime in most places. There's even a similarity with the following aspect of the Gen

Agreed - faking an emergency is highly frowned upon and I'm betting it's a crime in most places. There's even a similarity with the following aspect of the Geneva Convention, which is that pretending to surrender is so harmful to norms that it is literally a war crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy "In the context of war, perfidy is a form of deception in which one side promises to act in good faith (such as by raising a flag of truce) with the intention of breaking that promise ... Perfidy constitutes a breach of the laws of war and so is a war crime, as it degrades the protections and mutual restraints developed in the interest of all parties, combatants and civilians. " Pretending to surrender is something that's shown a lot in Star Trek and similar shows, and Pirates of the Carribean, but in our real-life world of 2023 it's a UN war crime to pretend to surrender, and it's really not a nice thing to do because if some people sometimes pretend to surrender, then pretty soon no one will trust surrender attempts and people who wanted to stop fighting will needlessly be lost. The idea of criminals faking a medical emergency is similar imho. If I were in a position of determining how much time robbers should serve in prison, I would personally recommend a much much longer sentence if they faked a medical emergency, for exactly this reason.

LarryMullins 4y ago
I saw a video showing perfidy committed by a Russian soldier in Ukraine. Several Russians were coming out of a building surrendering to some Ukrainian soldiers, when one of them came out with a gun and started shooting. All the Russians were killed in the subsequent firefight, because one of them ruined it for the rest. It may seem like a clever ruse in movies, but in real life it gets people killed.
- sofixa 4y ago
  It'd be funny if it wasn't so terrible. At this point it would be easier to list the war crimes not committed by the Russian army, they seem to be well intent on speed running the Geneva convention. One can only hope one day there's trials in e.g. The Hague to bring all war criminals to justice.
  - soperj 4y ago
    Russians just have to start working on advanced weapons and then they'll be excused from the tribunals like Unit 731.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > One can only hope one day there's trials in e.g. The Hague to bring all war criminals to justice. I hope that as well, but I think neither the US, Israel nor China will stand idle next to a nuclear power getting dragged in front of the ICC - not with the numerous counts of crimes each of these countries could reasonably be charged with. The Israelis may be the only ones being able to get away with a lot of their stuff given that their opponents continuously enact crimes as well (e.g. hiding military command structures under hospitals and schools), but the US and China? They can't pull that card.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > It may seem like a clever ruse in movies, but in real life it gets people killed. To be fair, the point of the ruse (in real wars; in heroic fiction this sometimes varies) is usually to get people killed, too; the question is just which people get killed.
  - upwardbound 4y ago
    It gets more people to die on ALL sides which is why it's considered a shitty thing to do, even if it's technically a "valid" tactic in some anarchic philosophies. The use of this ruse will cause people to stop accepting surrender which is BAD because it means that the people who die will be the average Joe and average Ivan in different countries who really don't want to kill anyone and just want to go back to their family and their life. These goodhearted people just want to go home and would gladly surrender. Imagine this thought experiment. I'll use your pen name dragonwriter as the name of a hypothetical super-human bandit / assassin / mercenary / gun for hire who sometimes does jobs like assassinations and Mission Impossible style burglaries of royal treasure. Imagine the DragonWriter bandit has no qualms about killing and so anyone who stands in his way gets shot with the intent to kill, AND now there are some rumors that a group of cops had DragonWriter surrounded and so he surrendered to them but then he pulled out a hidden sword and spun in a circle chopping them all in half. Now, any time DragonWriter tries to surrender in the future, his surrender won't be accepted, but what's even worse is: his action that bought him maybe a 5 second advantage (vs a million different other ways he could have won or fled the fight), and this tiny temporary advantage by the ruse has imposed a cost in exchange: This one infamous sword fight has now poisoned the well with respect to the global norm. Next time there's some other totally unaffiliated hat-wearing super-powered bandit who's stealing the Ark of the Covenant or the royal diamond or something, if THAT bandit tries to surrender, there's a high chance that person might be killed, because their surrender is distrusted since DragonWriter changed the norm and now every fight between supers and cops is now on "shoot to kill, no prisoners, take no quarter" stakes. Imagine how many times a famous super like Batman would have been killed if the authorities never accept a surrender because the surrender norm is ruined. It can be repaired but that might take a decade or more to repair the trust that was broken. With strong norms about surrender, red cross medics being protected, etc., we can have things like the miracle of the WW1 Christmas Truce which help the war to be a little bit little less of pure hell, for all the pure-hearted or indifferent people dragged into being a soldier, perhaps even drafted or press-ganged, to be the disposable cannon fodder for a bloody and disease and gas drenched war for no good reason more than rich politicians' egos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce These people just want to go back home to their wife or their mum and would gladly gladly surrender if given the chance, but that's not possible if someone ruins the norm! It's like, for example even if someone is a super-villain for example, they should really not take human lives of innocent people, or destroy irreplaceable cultural heritage sites, or damage/burn an ecological area like a rain forest, because those, once lost, are forever gone, and leave our world impoverished.
jacquesm 4y ago
The number of criminals faking medical emergencies to avoid having to appear in court is pretty high. And of course three days after they're right as rain. It's hard to act against because of the risk of punishing someone that really needs it.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  Faking your own illness is very different to faking an ambulance with lights and sirens racing through town.
- soperj 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure they meant faking being a ambulance or a firefighter or a cop to rob someone.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Ah sorry, misinterpretation on my end. You are probably right. But: fake cops robbing people is pretty common too. Unfortunately. Even more unfortunate, real cops doing it also happens.
    - im3w1l 4y ago
      Yeah and I bet that it would become even more common if cars fell for it every time. A predictable victim that always for for the same trick in the same way is much more attractive than a human that may respond in many different ways, that reads the news and may become more cautious if there is a crime wave.

LarryMullins 4y ago

I saw a video showing perfidy committed by a Russian soldier in Ukraine. Several Russians were coming out of a building surrendering to some Ukrainian soldiers, when one of them came out with a gun and started shooting. All the Russians were killed in the subsequent firefight, because one of them ruined it for the rest. It may seem like a clever ruse in movies, but in real life it gets people killed.

sofixa 4y ago
It'd be funny if it wasn't so terrible. At this point it would be easier to list the war crimes not committed by the Russian army, they seem to be well intent on speed running the Geneva convention. One can only hope one day there's trials in e.g. The Hague to bring all war criminals to justice.
- soperj 4y ago
  Russians just have to start working on advanced weapons and then they'll be excused from the tribunals like Unit 731.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > One can only hope one day there's trials in e.g. The Hague to bring all war criminals to justice. I hope that as well, but I think neither the US, Israel nor China will stand idle next to a nuclear power getting dragged in front of the ICC - not with the numerous counts of crimes each of these countries could reasonably be charged with. The Israelis may be the only ones being able to get away with a lot of their stuff given that their opponents continuously enact crimes as well (e.g. hiding military command structures under hospitals and schools), but the US and China? They can't pull that card.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> It may seem like a clever ruse in movies, but in real life it gets people killed. To be fair, the point of the ruse (in real wars; in heroic fiction this sometimes varies) is usually to get people killed, too; the question is just which people get killed.
- upwardbound 4y ago
  It gets more people to die on ALL sides which is why it's considered a shitty thing to do, even if it's technically a "valid" tactic in some anarchic philosophies. The use of this ruse will cause people to stop accepting surrender which is BAD because it means that the people who die will be the average Joe and average Ivan in different countries who really don't want to kill anyone and just want to go back to their family and their life. These goodhearted people just want to go home and would gladly surrender. Imagine this thought experiment. I'll use your pen name dragonwriter as the name of a hypothetical super-human bandit / assassin / mercenary / gun for hire who sometimes does jobs like assassinations and Mission Impossible style burglaries of royal treasure. Imagine the DragonWriter bandit has no qualms about killing and so anyone who stands in his way gets shot with the intent to kill, AND now there are some rumors that a group of cops had DragonWriter surrounded and so he surrendered to them but then he pulled out a hidden sword and spun in a circle chopping them all in half. Now, any time DragonWriter tries to surrender in the future, his surrender won't be accepted, but what's even worse is: his action that bought him maybe a 5 second advantage (vs a million different other ways he could have won or fled the fight), and this tiny temporary advantage by the ruse has imposed a cost in exchange: This one infamous sword fight has now poisoned the well with respect to the global norm. Next time there's some other totally unaffiliated hat-wearing super-powered bandit who's stealing the Ark of the Covenant or the royal diamond or something, if THAT bandit tries to surrender, there's a high chance that person might be killed, because their surrender is distrusted since DragonWriter changed the norm and now every fight between supers and cops is now on "shoot to kill, no prisoners, take no quarter" stakes. Imagine how many times a famous super like Batman would have been killed if the authorities never accept a surrender because the surrender norm is ruined. It can be repaired but that might take a decade or more to repair the trust that was broken. With strong norms about surrender, red cross medics being protected, etc., we can have things like the miracle of the WW1 Christmas Truce which help the war to be a little bit little less of pure hell, for all the pure-hearted or indifferent people dragged into being a soldier, perhaps even drafted or press-ganged, to be the disposable cannon fodder for a bloody and disease and gas drenched war for no good reason more than rich politicians' egos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce These people just want to go back home to their wife or their mum and would gladly gladly surrender if given the chance, but that's not possible if someone ruins the norm! It's like, for example even if someone is a super-villain for example, they should really not take human lives of innocent people, or destroy irreplaceable cultural heritage sites, or damage/burn an ecological area like a rain forest, because those, once lost, are forever gone, and leave our world impoverished.

jacquesm 4y ago

The number of criminals faking medical emergencies to avoid having to appear in court is pretty high. And of course three days after they're right as rain. It's hard to act against because of the risk of punishing someone that really needs it.

lazyasciiart 4y ago
Faking your own illness is very different to faking an ambulance with lights and sirens racing through town.
soperj 4y ago
I'm pretty sure they meant faking being a ambulance or a firefighter or a cop to rob someone.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Ah sorry, misinterpretation on my end. You are probably right. But: fake cops robbing people is pretty common too. Unfortunately. Even more unfortunate, real cops doing it also happens.
  - im3w1l 4y ago
    Yeah and I bet that it would become even more common if cars fell for it every time. A predictable victim that always for for the same trick in the same way is much more attractive than a human that may respond in many different ways, that reads the news and may become more cautious if there is a crime wave.