3 ms·

So instead of editing and compiling text files what should we be doing instead?

kens 4y ago
I don't have the solution; I just see the problem :-) Programs could be in some sort of database rather than a set of files, so the code you're interested in gets displayed without you caring about how it is broken down into a sequence of lines in a file. Sort of like how a database shows you the data you want, rather than needing to put entries in the right order. You shouldn't need to think about how your methods are ordered in the file or even what file they go into. The display could be more like a smart word processor, where you can format code however you want. (A feature that the Xerox Alto provided.) You should be able to stick images in your code to describe things, rather than creating ASCII graphics. Tabs vs spaces shouldn't even exist.
- jdsully 4y ago
  Oddly that was how BASIC worked in the actual 70s. line numbers were virtual. Though I think the implementation left much to be desired.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  Smalltalk basically did that. The code can be serialized to text (and usually is) but in the system it's just in a database. What file represents what source code, doesn't matter to the user. The system can create directories and files as needed to represent it in whatever the sane way to represent it is. You're just editing the code and not dealing with the mundane and tedious serialization bits. You don't have to get into nonsensical wars about what goes in what file or what directory, you just care about packages, classes, and methods.
- actinium226 4y ago
  The database analogy breaks down pretty quickly though. Instead of deciding what file to put something in, you have to decide which table. And you're not going to have a single database for all your code, so you'll have to decide which database to put the code in, and which table within that database. And now we're created libraries and packages. Not to mention that sometimes a database gets too big and performance goes down, so maybe we want to split it up or shard it or something. And I haven't even mentioned all the database types out there, relational, document, graph, time-series...
- igouy 4y ago
  Further to Jtsummers reply, with ENVY/Manager "All code is stored in a central database rather than in files associated with a particular image." page 4 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mastering_ENVY_Developer/ld6E19QIMo4C?hl=en&gbpv=1 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mastering_ENVY_Develope...
roundandround 4y ago
I'd want to be working in a system where an AST is the first class representation, exchange format, etc. That everything could be dumped to text format should be a private choice and unknown to the beginner developer, much like debugging with AST or assembly is today.

kens 4y ago

I don't have the solution; I just see the problem :-) Programs could be in some sort of database rather than a set of files, so the code you're interested in gets displayed without you caring about how it is broken down into a sequence of lines in a file. Sort of like how a database shows you the data you want, rather than needing to put entries in the right order. You shouldn't need to think about how your methods are ordered in the file or even what file they go into. The display could be more like a smart word processor, where you can format code however you want. (A feature that the Xerox Alto provided.) You should be able to stick images in your code to describe things, rather than creating ASCII graphics. Tabs vs spaces shouldn't even exist.

jdsully 4y ago
Oddly that was how BASIC worked in the actual 70s. line numbers were virtual. Though I think the implementation left much to be desired.
Jtsummers 4y ago
Smalltalk basically did that. The code can be serialized to text (and usually is) but in the system it's just in a database. What file represents what source code, doesn't matter to the user. The system can create directories and files as needed to represent it in whatever the sane way to represent it is. You're just editing the code and not dealing with the mundane and tedious serialization bits. You don't have to get into nonsensical wars about what goes in what file or what directory, you just care about packages, classes, and methods.
actinium226 4y ago
The database analogy breaks down pretty quickly though. Instead of deciding what file to put something in, you have to decide which table. And you're not going to have a single database for all your code, so you'll have to decide which database to put the code in, and which table within that database. And now we're created libraries and packages. Not to mention that sometimes a database gets too big and performance goes down, so maybe we want to split it up or shard it or something. And I haven't even mentioned all the database types out there, relational, document, graph, time-series...
igouy 4y ago
Further to Jtsummers reply, with ENVY/Manager "All code is stored in a central database rather than in files associated with a particular image." page 4 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mastering_ENVY_Developer/ld6E19QIMo4C?hl=en&gbpv=1 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Mastering_ENVY_Develope...

roundandround 4y ago

I'd want to be working in a system where an AST is the first class representation, exchange format, etc. That everything could be dumped to text format should be a private choice and unknown to the beginner developer, much like debugging with AST or assembly is today.