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But... if there is a god, what created the god?

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Depends. Is the god eternal? Things that are eternal (at least, eternal into the past) don't have beginnings, and therefore don't need creators. (Same with an eternal, cyclical universe - no creator required. It just is, and always has been.)
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >Depends. Is the god eternal? Things that are eternal (at least, eternal into the past) don't have beginnings, and therefore don't need creators. (Same with an eternal, cyclical universe - no creator required. It just is, and always has been.) I'd add that if "god" is/was/will be made entirely of photons (and/or other massless particles), then "god" moves at the speed of light, which means "god" doesn't experience the passage of time[0]; so no beginning, no end and no in-between, just existence outside of "time." This is, of course, a ridiculous idea. However, it does support the fantasy of an eternal being. Then again, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."[1] Which isn't to say that such claptrap as I suggest is true and, based on what we know now, it seems (at least to me) a ridiculous concept. That said, our understanding of the universe(s) is woefully incomplete. [0] https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54162/how-does-a-photon-experience-space-and-time https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54162/how-does-a... [1] http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehamletdreamt.html http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehaml... Edit: Used the correct conjunction.
edgyquant 4y ago
The whole point of god is that it’s the first cause. The unmoved mover.
- drsnow 4y ago
  ... okay, the whole point is that the same excuse can be used for a necessary universe, one that came into existence and was its own first cause, unmoved mover
  - bandie91 4y ago
    okay but if the universe is the first cause and the universe is material (matter, energy, etc, everything "measurable"), then where the non-material things come from? purpose, logic, natural laws
    - drsnow 4y ago
      they come from human perception being limited to that which is useful for survival. purpose and logic are ways humans try to understand and be able to predict outcomes. natural laws are merely the human description of its perception of the intrinsic mechanics of the universe. none of these things, purpose, logic, or natural laws, is prescriptive for the universe, they're descriptive
      - bandie91 4y ago
        will, intellect, truth values, causality, logical principals, about-ness, universales. are these, are everything concievable just emergent properties in your view? are not they real apart from material things?

Depends. Is the god eternal? Things that are eternal (at least, eternal into the past) don't have beginnings, and therefore don't need creators. (Same with an eternal, cyclical universe - no creator required. It just is, and always has been.)

nobody9999 4y ago
>Depends. Is the god eternal? Things that are eternal (at least, eternal into the past) don't have beginnings, and therefore don't need creators. (Same with an eternal, cyclical universe - no creator required. It just is, and always has been.) I'd add that if "god" is/was/will be made entirely of photons (and/or other massless particles), then "god" moves at the speed of light, which means "god" doesn't experience the passage of time[0]; so no beginning, no end and no in-between, just existence outside of "time." This is, of course, a ridiculous idea. However, it does support the fantasy of an eternal being. Then again, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."[1] Which isn't to say that such claptrap as I suggest is true and, based on what we know now, it seems (at least to me) a ridiculous concept. That said, our understanding of the universe(s) is woefully incomplete. [0] https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54162/how-does-a-photon-experience-space-and-time https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54162/how-does-a... [1] http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehamletdreamt.html http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehaml... Edit: Used the correct conjunction.

edgyquant 4y ago

The whole point of god is that it’s the first cause. The unmoved mover.

drsnow 4y ago
... okay, the whole point is that the same excuse can be used for a necessary universe, one that came into existence and was its own first cause, unmoved mover
- bandie91 4y ago
  okay but if the universe is the first cause and the universe is material (matter, energy, etc, everything "measurable"), then where the non-material things come from? purpose, logic, natural laws
  - drsnow 4y ago
    they come from human perception being limited to that which is useful for survival. purpose and logic are ways humans try to understand and be able to predict outcomes. natural laws are merely the human description of its perception of the intrinsic mechanics of the universe. none of these things, purpose, logic, or natural laws, is prescriptive for the universe, they're descriptive
    - bandie91 4y ago
      will, intellect, truth values, causality, logical principals, about-ness, universales. are these, are everything concievable just emergent properties in your view? are not they real apart from material things?