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I’m kind of confused here. Contracts are enforced by the government, right? Requiring a piece of paper that the government supports in order to obtain employmen

I’m kind of confused here. Contracts are enforced by the government, right? Requiring a piece of paper that the government supports in order to obtain employment does not seem very libertarian. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, I don’t actually care about libertarianism because in the US it’s a label self-applied by many kooks (for example, just look up the Libertarian Party nominees for president in… any of our elections) By US standards, in the US job market, “unions are a libertarian concept” is something that only someone unfamiliar with US labor dynamics and the local meaning of “libertarian” would say. It’s a pointless exercise of “Look how I define this word outside of meaningful context!”

randomdata 4y ago
Color me confused as well. In what way are contracts not libertarian? Freedom of association really doesn't stand up to have any meaning if you are unable to define what the relationship entails. Libertarian doesn't mean no government, if that is what you are suggesting; not in the USA, not anywhere.
- braingenious 4y ago
  To quote myself: > Requiring a piece of paper that the government supports in order to obtain employment does not seem very libertarian. Do you see no difference between a contract and a contract required by the government? Anyway, I’m going to move on. It’s been fun talking about a definition of “libertarian” that has nothing to do with the practical discussion at hand. Kudos to your definition as it applies to the term outside of the US job market.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > Do you see no difference between a contract and a contract required by the government? What government requirement are you talking about? There was no mention of this in previous comments and seems to have nothing to do with the discussion. As before, a union will most likely require a contract in order to enter into an association with an employer, but that's ultimately up to the parties seeking association. Strictly speaking they could associate without one, but disputes become harder to resolve later so it is not the best idea. Indeed, under libertarianism, the government will support the contracts you enter into by helping you enforce them. That is necessary for freedom of association to be a useful concept.

randomdata 4y ago

Color me confused as well. In what way are contracts not libertarian? Freedom of association really doesn't stand up to have any meaning if you are unable to define what the relationship entails. Libertarian doesn't mean no government, if that is what you are suggesting; not in the USA, not anywhere.

braingenious 4y ago
To quote myself: > Requiring a piece of paper that the government supports in order to obtain employment does not seem very libertarian. Do you see no difference between a contract and a contract required by the government? Anyway, I’m going to move on. It’s been fun talking about a definition of “libertarian” that has nothing to do with the practical discussion at hand. Kudos to your definition as it applies to the term outside of the US job market.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > Do you see no difference between a contract and a contract required by the government? What government requirement are you talking about? There was no mention of this in previous comments and seems to have nothing to do with the discussion. As before, a union will most likely require a contract in order to enter into an association with an employer, but that's ultimately up to the parties seeking association. Strictly speaking they could associate without one, but disputes become harder to resolve later so it is not the best idea. Indeed, under libertarianism, the government will support the contracts you enter into by helping you enforce them. That is necessary for freedom of association to be a useful concept.