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These things are mostly abused in shady countries and the US (aka the freer of free countries). For example in France: - having a bank account is a right - ci

These things are mostly abused in shady countries and the US (aka the freer of free countries). For example in France: - having a bank account is a right - civil forfeiture exists but is heavily regulated, nothing even close to the US style abuse - there is no no fly list - there is no credit score Deplatforming is a private business thing, I though freedom advocates loved the right of business to serve whoever they please ?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> there is no credit score The French consumer credit system resembles the U.S. no-fly list. Bankers have discretion on making loans and sharing consumer records, which are absolutely maintained. But consumers don’t get to look into the black box.
- lm28469 4y ago
  > But consumers don’t get to look into the black box. Nor your landlord, nor the shop in which you'll go buy a new bicycle, &c. Also, it's much harder to get a credit in France, you don't get on the list randomly. So all in all it's completely different thing since it won't impact your day to day life for simple things such as renting a flat. Ah, and you can still fly, you just can't get into more debt.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > shop in which you'll go buy a new bicycle I’ve bought bicycles in America. Nobody checks credit. > much harder to get a credit in France If you aren’t rich, yes. If you have a personal banker, credit flows. > you don't get on the list randomly You do if you’re my friend and a SocGen clown mis-reports your mortgage as in default to the BdF. Both systems, the U.S. no-fly and French consumer credit, share common impetuses. They’re necessary, particularly for the elites. But they’re ideologically distasteful. So a system is maintained, shrouded in secrecy and, ideally, kept clear of the hoi polloi.
anonporridge 4y ago
> there is no credit score This isn't good. The alternative to credit scores is that some banker, most of whom grew up upper middle class or upper class, meets you in person, nods at your firm, masculine handshake, and decides they like the cut of your jib, complexion of your skin, and accent of your voice well enough to give you a loan and/or a reasonable rate. The inherent discrimination of this process is a huge part of the reason we shifted to credit scores in the 80s. Credit scores are objective, algorithmic measures of credit worthiness that anyone can game upwards by following the rules. The alternative is subjective measures that are applied erratically by different human minds that will always be riddled with bias.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  > The inherent discrimination of this process is a huge part of the reason we shifted to credit scores in the 80s. Citation needed. It’s in the bank’s interest to offer loans based on credit-worthiness and not on the superficial things you described.
- mattpallissard 4y ago
  Eh, I don't know if I agree with that. I know a few people who have gone the alternative route; proof of utilities paid, lack of back rent, etc. From the outside looking in it seemed to be a bit more hoop jumping, but overall more palatable than 3 private firms, who don't give damn about you, aggregating your financial history with financial institutions' best interests in mind.
- jacobr1 4y ago
  Credits scores for loans make sense. But increasingly they are being used as proxies "general trustworthiness" which they are not well designed to support, even if there is some rough correlation. They shouldn't be used a gate to employment, or rental housing (some of the factors apply, being able to afford rent, or prior payment history are relevant ... but the scores are still abused beyond those factors).
- mindslight 4y ago
  Or the alternative is that we have much less credit, the prices of assets become a lot more affordable, and wealth remains better distributed throughout society rather than being sucked away into the financial industry by the servicing of perpetual debt.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> there is no credit score The French consumer credit system resembles the U.S. no-fly list. Bankers have discretion on making loans and sharing consumer records, which are absolutely maintained. But consumers don’t get to look into the black box.

lm28469 4y ago
> But consumers don’t get to look into the black box. Nor your landlord, nor the shop in which you'll go buy a new bicycle, &c. Also, it's much harder to get a credit in France, you don't get on the list randomly. So all in all it's completely different thing since it won't impact your day to day life for simple things such as renting a flat. Ah, and you can still fly, you just can't get into more debt.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > shop in which you'll go buy a new bicycle I’ve bought bicycles in America. Nobody checks credit. > much harder to get a credit in France If you aren’t rich, yes. If you have a personal banker, credit flows. > you don't get on the list randomly You do if you’re my friend and a SocGen clown mis-reports your mortgage as in default to the BdF. Both systems, the U.S. no-fly and French consumer credit, share common impetuses. They’re necessary, particularly for the elites. But they’re ideologically distasteful. So a system is maintained, shrouded in secrecy and, ideally, kept clear of the hoi polloi.

anonporridge 4y ago

> there is no credit score This isn't good. The alternative to credit scores is that some banker, most of whom grew up upper middle class or upper class, meets you in person, nods at your firm, masculine handshake, and decides they like the cut of your jib, complexion of your skin, and accent of your voice well enough to give you a loan and/or a reasonable rate. The inherent discrimination of this process is a huge part of the reason we shifted to credit scores in the 80s. Credit scores are objective, algorithmic measures of credit worthiness that anyone can game upwards by following the rules. The alternative is subjective measures that are applied erratically by different human minds that will always be riddled with bias.

drexlspivey 4y ago
> The inherent discrimination of this process is a huge part of the reason we shifted to credit scores in the 80s. Citation needed. It’s in the bank’s interest to offer loans based on credit-worthiness and not on the superficial things you described.
mattpallissard 4y ago
Eh, I don't know if I agree with that. I know a few people who have gone the alternative route; proof of utilities paid, lack of back rent, etc. From the outside looking in it seemed to be a bit more hoop jumping, but overall more palatable than 3 private firms, who don't give damn about you, aggregating your financial history with financial institutions' best interests in mind.
jacobr1 4y ago
Credits scores for loans make sense. But increasingly they are being used as proxies "general trustworthiness" which they are not well designed to support, even if there is some rough correlation. They shouldn't be used a gate to employment, or rental housing (some of the factors apply, being able to afford rent, or prior payment history are relevant ... but the scores are still abused beyond those factors).
mindslight 4y ago
Or the alternative is that we have much less credit, the prices of assets become a lot more affordable, and wealth remains better distributed throughout society rather than being sucked away into the financial industry by the servicing of perpetual debt.