4 ms·

What are the ethics of publishing such a list? The act of doing so exposes people and damages their reputations, and because there isn't a just procedure for ad

What are the ethics of publishing such a list? The act of doing so exposes people and damages their reputations, and because there isn't a just procedure for adding people to that list that damage is likely unfair. It's not like this is the registry of sex offenders, where at least there was an actual court case to determine their registry and there are well-defined procedures for removal in case of mistakes or issues. Shouldn't we advocate for there to be a fair, just procedure for adding and removing people from the no-fly list before making it public?

rwmj 4y ago
Since every airline has a copy of this list you can be pretty sure that anyone who wants access sufficiently already has access. Every government, including enemies of the USA, every security agency, any airline IT employee. I would say distributing it in public is fairly neutral. > Shouldn't we advocate for there to be a fair, just procedure for adding and removing people from the no-fly list before making it public? Absolutely there should be this advocacy, but I don't see how that's connected to whether it is public or not.
kristofferR 4y ago
Most innocent people on this list wouldn't have standing to get removed from this list because they wouldn't have been able to prove they were on it before it was leaked.
- openasocket 4y ago
  I did some googling and couldn't find any examples of that, or any legal commentary suggesting that is the case. According to this ACLU page there is a standard process for you to determine whether or not you are on the list: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-y... . At least if you're a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident that provides you official recognition of whether or not you are on the list. And even if you aren't a US citizen or lawful permanent resident, would a leaked list actually hold up in court?
  - notch898a 4y ago
    The courts seem to have no problem accepting hearsay when it works against you so hey, why not.
banannaise 4y ago
The entire point of leaking the list is that the ways people are added to the list are unsupervised and unjust. Being on the list isn't a sign you've done anything wrong.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  If you're on the list and are harmed why not sue? Has anyone sued?
- openasocket 4y ago
  Yeah, but is the average person going to interpret it that way? I think the average person is going to think "you're on the no-fly list, you must be suspicious in some way". They shouldn't, but that's going to happen.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
It's unethical to poke around on computer systems that aren't yours, unethical to steal from them, and unethical to give away what you stole. At least he supposedly gave the information to legitimate journalists.

rwmj 4y ago

Since every airline has a copy of this list you can be pretty sure that anyone who wants access sufficiently already has access. Every government, including enemies of the USA, every security agency, any airline IT employee. I would say distributing it in public is fairly neutral. > Shouldn't we advocate for there to be a fair, just procedure for adding and removing people from the no-fly list before making it public? Absolutely there should be this advocacy, but I don't see how that's connected to whether it is public or not.

kristofferR 4y ago

Most innocent people on this list wouldn't have standing to get removed from this list because they wouldn't have been able to prove they were on it before it was leaked.

openasocket 4y ago
I did some googling and couldn't find any examples of that, or any legal commentary suggesting that is the case. According to this ACLU page there is a standard process for you to determine whether or not you are on the list: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-y... . At least if you're a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident that provides you official recognition of whether or not you are on the list. And even if you aren't a US citizen or lawful permanent resident, would a leaked list actually hold up in court?
- notch898a 4y ago
  The courts seem to have no problem accepting hearsay when it works against you so hey, why not.

banannaise 4y ago

The entire point of leaking the list is that the ways people are added to the list are unsupervised and unjust. Being on the list isn't a sign you've done anything wrong.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
If you're on the list and are harmed why not sue? Has anyone sued?
openasocket 4y ago
Yeah, but is the average person going to interpret it that way? I think the average person is going to think "you're on the no-fly list, you must be suspicious in some way". They shouldn't, but that's going to happen.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

It's unethical to poke around on computer systems that aren't yours, unethical to steal from them, and unethical to give away what you stole. At least he supposedly gave the information to legitimate journalists.