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All you have to do to avoid the FSD safety issues is spend $10,000 less dollars and not get it. Also I wouldn't count on the CEOs of Hyundai/Ford being less gr

All you have to do to avoid the FSD safety issues is spend $10,000 less dollars and not get it. Also I wouldn't count on the CEOs of Hyundai/Ford being less gross than Elon, they just tweet less, which is good.

bdcravens 4y ago
Phantom braking doesn't require FSD.
- natch 4y ago
  Don’t use autopilot, problem solved. And… in any case stay engaged while driving so that you can be ready to touch the accelerator gently if it happens, to counteract it. The purpose of autopilot is not to allow you to disengage from the responsibility to monitor the road situation. I’m not saying I love phantom braking though. It’s gotten much better except in some beta versions.
  - waffletower 4y ago
    I agree that phantom braking has "improved". The frequency of the occurrence has definitely decreased during my 2 years/18000 miles of driving my Model Y. But you have to drive with a consciousness that it can occur at any time, particularly when approaching curves or parked vehicles. Usually, an audio warning is given by the car instead -- which is a bit too frequent -- though I have not adjusted its configuration to a higher threshold.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    I've used that feature on the Toyotas and the Kia I own. As another commenter pointed out, other brands have the same phantom braking issue, but for the cars I've owned, I've haven't experienced it.
    - apelapan 4y ago
      The cruise control on my Kia (MY18 Optima) phantom brakes in certain situations. Typically in curves on divided highways, when you are in the left-most lane. I think it gets confused and panicky by the divider fence. Luckily there is no OTA or other updates happening to these systems, so I quickly learned to anticipate and never get surprised by it anymore. Gave me a big scare the first time, though!
- jackmott42 4y ago
  That is true, in my opinion the cruise control on Teslas is just not usable, and for some that is a deal breaker.
  - waffletower 4y ago
    Phantom braking is a real issue that I have directly experienced, autopilot is terrible, but I disagree that cruise control is unusable. I have found Tesla's cruise control (without steering), which includes car distance maintenance and braking, to be extremely reliable. It can be problematic at low speeds, but less so than traditional cruise control which does not have sensor informed braking.
- darknavi 4y ago
  Phantom braking doesn't require a Tesla. https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-million-honda-cars-over-phantom-braking/ https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-m... https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-experienced-in-the-mache-for-the-first-time-7-months-in.9376/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-expe... https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braking.47782/ https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braki...
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    In considering all of those cars (and others), considering the effect of phantom braking on the overall safety of the car would be important.
natch 4y ago
My understanding is that some of the top VW group (VW / Audi / Porsche) executives can’t even visit the US for fear of being criminally charged for the dieselgate shenanigans. So add them to your list.

bdcravens 4y ago

Phantom braking doesn't require FSD.

natch 4y ago
Don’t use autopilot, problem solved. And… in any case stay engaged while driving so that you can be ready to touch the accelerator gently if it happens, to counteract it. The purpose of autopilot is not to allow you to disengage from the responsibility to monitor the road situation. I’m not saying I love phantom braking though. It’s gotten much better except in some beta versions.
- waffletower 4y ago
  I agree that phantom braking has "improved". The frequency of the occurrence has definitely decreased during my 2 years/18000 miles of driving my Model Y. But you have to drive with a consciousness that it can occur at any time, particularly when approaching curves or parked vehicles. Usually, an audio warning is given by the car instead -- which is a bit too frequent -- though I have not adjusted its configuration to a higher threshold.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  I've used that feature on the Toyotas and the Kia I own. As another commenter pointed out, other brands have the same phantom braking issue, but for the cars I've owned, I've haven't experienced it.
  - apelapan 4y ago
    The cruise control on my Kia (MY18 Optima) phantom brakes in certain situations. Typically in curves on divided highways, when you are in the left-most lane. I think it gets confused and panicky by the divider fence. Luckily there is no OTA or other updates happening to these systems, so I quickly learned to anticipate and never get surprised by it anymore. Gave me a big scare the first time, though!
jackmott42 4y ago
That is true, in my opinion the cruise control on Teslas is just not usable, and for some that is a deal breaker.
- waffletower 4y ago
  Phantom braking is a real issue that I have directly experienced, autopilot is terrible, but I disagree that cruise control is unusable. I have found Tesla's cruise control (without steering), which includes car distance maintenance and braking, to be extremely reliable. It can be problematic at low speeds, but less so than traditional cruise control which does not have sensor informed braking.
darknavi 4y ago
Phantom braking doesn't require a Tesla. https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-million-honda-cars-over-phantom-braking/ https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-m... https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-experienced-in-the-mache-for-the-first-time-7-months-in.9376/ https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-expe... https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braking.47782/ https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braki...
- bdcravens 4y ago
  In considering all of those cars (and others), considering the effect of phantom braking on the overall safety of the car would be important.

natch 4y ago

My understanding is that some of the top VW group (VW / Audi / Porsche) executives can’t even visit the US for fear of being criminally charged for the dieselgate shenanigans. So add them to your list.