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> For example, in HN discussions people will often recommend Fastmail or Protonmail, but they've had their problems too (FM: 2017, 2020, 2022, PM: 2018, 2019,

> For example, in HN discussions people will often recommend Fastmail or Protonmail, but they've had their problems too (FM: 2017, 2020, 2022, PM: 2018, 2019, 2021). I think this is a bit dismissive of Fastmail: in all three of the linked reports (2017, 2020, and 2022) Fastmail has apologized and reinstated the account or provided some other mitigation. Nobody is perfect, any service will have bugs causing lockouts and false-positive fraud claims. But what makes Google untrustworthy is that they don't seem to have any recourse if you are caught in a mess. To the point where engineers in other Google departments can't get human support, and the linked case which made mainstream news did not get his account back despite being proven beyond-doubt innocent. A good service can make some mistakes, what differentiates them from a bad service that they attempt to correct them. Like how a good company can do layoffs if they provide good severance and also cut top executives' pay.

jefftk 4y ago
In cases where someone was able to get their Google account back only after taking their case public (ex: [1][2]) I'm still counting this as a lockout, under the assumption that if they hadn't been able to draw attention to the situation they would have been stuck. Are the Fastmail cases different, or was taking it public and getting noticed a necessary part of the resolution process? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/that-time-i-got-locked-out-of-my-google-account-for-a-month/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/that-time-i-got-locked-out... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2794529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2794529
ProAm 4y ago
> Nobody is perfect, any service will have bugs causing lockouts and false-positive fraud claims The HUGE difference is both Fastmail and I assume Protonmail (I only have personal experience with FM) actually have customer service departments, with real people.

jefftk 4y ago

In cases where someone was able to get their Google account back only after taking their case public (ex: [1][2]) I'm still counting this as a lockout, under the assumption that if they hadn't been able to draw attention to the situation they would have been stuck. Are the Fastmail cases different, or was taking it public and getting noticed a necessary part of the resolution process? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/that-time-i-got-locked-out-of-my-google-account-for-a-month/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/that-time-i-got-locked-out... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2794529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2794529

ProAm 4y ago

> Nobody is perfect, any service will have bugs causing lockouts and false-positive fraud claims The HUGE difference is both Fastmail and I assume Protonmail (I only have personal experience with FM) actually have customer service departments, with real people.