4 ms·

I have always imagine walking through airport security like a normal person, then out of the blue you are tackled, arrested and charged with “illegal attempt to

I have always imagine walking through airport security like a normal person, then out of the blue you are tackled, arrested and charged with “illegal attempt to board a plane” and sentenced to twenty years in a federal prison. An over-reaction to be sure… I expect no less from modern US laws enforcement.

PM_me_your_math 4y ago
That's quite the imagination. You get denied a boarding pass if you are on a no fly list, asked to leave the airport, and told to contact DHS. If you are on the terror watch list, or have active arrest warrants from a court, you will be arrested. If you attempt to evade and resist arrest, then yes, you will probably get tackled and tuned up. People usually confuse the terrorist watch list with the no-fly list. The former being a list of persons known to having some involvement in terror activities in groups designated as terrorist groups by the US State Department. The No-Fly list is generally full of criminals, unruly passengers, and people who have gotten violent on flights with crew or other passengers. It is also imperfect, with false positives occurring with people who have the same name as another listee. It should be noted that the US government may not use the No Fly List to prevent U.S. citizens or permanent residents from returning home to U.S. territory, since doing so is a violation of the 14th amendment.
- notch898a 4y ago
  What's the basis for arresting someone for just being on a watch list? That sounds unconstitutional. I was added to a watch list long ago that results in me being tossed in a cell and "detained" for up to 24 hours every time I go through customs but they always make it exceedingly clear I'm not under arrest (granted while sitting in immigration holding cell it doesn't feel much different). It really gets annoying just being told by CBP "you know what's next" while never being able to find out what list you've been put on. I hope more of these lists become public.
  - from 4y ago
    I assume the #1 indicator is frequent travel to Syria Iraq Iran Lebanon. Have you ever gone to those places?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - photonbucket 4y ago
    What's your guess for why they're treating you like this?
- ianhawes 4y ago
  Your comment is mostly wrong. The terrorist "watch-list" is a database of people that the US government considers at-risk of committing acts of terrorism. Whether you believe that is another story. The no-fly list is a subset of the terrorism watch list. Criminals, unruly passengers, and violent offenders are specifically NOT on the no-fly list unless they're also on the terrorism watch list[0]. Unruly passengers are sometimes added to a no-fly list for a specific airline, but there is no national no-fly list that private companies are eligible to add to[1], and despite being charged federally with a crime in the air, you are not eligible to be added to the no-fly list for that reason. [0] https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism/tsc https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism/tsc [1] https://news.delta.com/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-why-we-need-national-no-fly-list https://news.delta.com/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-why-we-need-nati...
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    The no-fly list is reported to have 1.5 million names on it. (the public didn't know how many names were on it until it was leaked). If this is a subset of the "terrorist watch-list", then that terrorist watch list must have even more names on it? I think you're implying many more? 5 million? 10 million? People that the US government "considers at-risk of committing acts of terrorism," really? There are, what, a couple dozen acts of terrorism a year? (I don't know whether we're talking about in the US or globally or what). But millions of people the US government "reasonably" considers at risk to commit them? This seems... odd, no?
    - simple-thoughts 4y ago
      Why would that be odd? It is perfectly consistent with the history of state actors generally and USG specifically.
      - jrochkind1 4y ago
        So at the link that ianhawes helpfully provided, the US government describes the terrorist watch list as "[having] information on people reasonably suspected to be involved in terrorism (or related activities)." I don't think we knew how many people were on it before. But if it's a strict superset of the no-fly list, then we now know it's at least 1.5 million people. I guess the only odd thing is that a lot of people seem to believe the USA government's line that more than 1.5 million people are "reasonably suspected to be involved in terrorism or related activities", when there are maybe a few dozen terrorist attacks a year. ("reasonably"! "related activities" huh?).

PM_me_your_math 4y ago

That's quite the imagination. You get denied a boarding pass if you are on a no fly list, asked to leave the airport, and told to contact DHS. If you are on the terror watch list, or have active arrest warrants from a court, you will be arrested. If you attempt to evade and resist arrest, then yes, you will probably get tackled and tuned up. People usually confuse the terrorist watch list with the no-fly list. The former being a list of persons known to having some involvement in terror activities in groups designated as terrorist groups by the US State Department. The No-Fly list is generally full of criminals, unruly passengers, and people who have gotten violent on flights with crew or other passengers. It is also imperfect, with false positives occurring with people who have the same name as another listee. It should be noted that the US government may not use the No Fly List to prevent U.S. citizens or permanent residents from returning home to U.S. territory, since doing so is a violation of the 14th amendment.

notch898a 4y ago
What's the basis for arresting someone for just being on a watch list? That sounds unconstitutional. I was added to a watch list long ago that results in me being tossed in a cell and "detained" for up to 24 hours every time I go through customs but they always make it exceedingly clear I'm not under arrest (granted while sitting in immigration holding cell it doesn't feel much different). It really gets annoying just being told by CBP "you know what's next" while never being able to find out what list you've been put on. I hope more of these lists become public.
- from 4y ago
  I assume the #1 indicator is frequent travel to Syria Iraq Iran Lebanon. Have you ever gone to those places?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- photonbucket 4y ago
  What's your guess for why they're treating you like this?
ianhawes 4y ago
Your comment is mostly wrong. The terrorist "watch-list" is a database of people that the US government considers at-risk of committing acts of terrorism. Whether you believe that is another story. The no-fly list is a subset of the terrorism watch list. Criminals, unruly passengers, and violent offenders are specifically NOT on the no-fly list unless they're also on the terrorism watch list[0]. Unruly passengers are sometimes added to a no-fly list for a specific airline, but there is no national no-fly list that private companies are eligible to add to[1], and despite being charged federally with a crime in the air, you are not eligible to be added to the no-fly list for that reason. [0] https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism/tsc https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism/tsc [1] https://news.delta.com/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-why-we-need-national-no-fly-list https://news.delta.com/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-why-we-need-nati...
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  The no-fly list is reported to have 1.5 million names on it. (the public didn't know how many names were on it until it was leaked). If this is a subset of the "terrorist watch-list", then that terrorist watch list must have even more names on it? I think you're implying many more? 5 million? 10 million? People that the US government "considers at-risk of committing acts of terrorism," really? There are, what, a couple dozen acts of terrorism a year? (I don't know whether we're talking about in the US or globally or what). But millions of people the US government "reasonably" considers at risk to commit them? This seems... odd, no?
  - simple-thoughts 4y ago
    Why would that be odd? It is perfectly consistent with the history of state actors generally and USG specifically.
    - jrochkind1 4y ago
      So at the link that ianhawes helpfully provided, the US government describes the terrorist watch list as "[having] information on people reasonably suspected to be involved in terrorism (or related activities)." I don't think we knew how many people were on it before. But if it's a strict superset of the no-fly list, then we now know it's at least 1.5 million people. I guess the only odd thing is that a lot of people seem to believe the USA government's line that more than 1.5 million people are "reasonably suspected to be involved in terrorism or related activities", when there are maybe a few dozen terrorist attacks a year. ("reasonably"! "related activities" huh?).