4 ms·

For the love of lord please keep saying this. Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are worki

For the love of lord please keep saying this. Because it is true. And because I am sick and tired of this self hate of "inflated salaries". Jesus, we are working in one of the most profitable industries, whatever we build tends to be a long term force multiplier, and somehow a large portion of the sector thinks our earnings are inflated. The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life.

arcticbull 4y ago
I think folks really lose perspective. Apple has a revenue per employee of $2,375,435 and that includes the janitorial staff. [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-employee-of-selected-tech-companies/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...
- giantg2 4y ago
  Seems to be a paywall. What is the profit per employee, before and after employee costs?
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Apple's gross profit margin is 40% and net is 23%. OpEx accounts for a surprisingly small amount, actually. Here's a nifty visualization. [1] [1] https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png
    - giantg2 4y ago
      That's nice, but I just realized something. Aren't they a tech company that isn't doing layoffs? From the stuff I'm reading, the layoffs that are happening are mostly cutting unprofitable programs, or unnecessary support staff. And in very small numbers (5% or less). At this point, I'm not sure what we're really discussing since this started out as talking about how above average tech salaries are at these top-tier companies, both in terms of the industry and in general. My only point was that I don't think unionizing would be beneficial to increasing tech salary or to preventing there layoffs. Where they would be useful is more consistent treatment of employees and adherence to their own policies.
giantg2 4y ago
"The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life." Haha, ok. Can you not clearly see your own subjective bias? Why doesn't that hedgefund manager deserve it? Many of the people working for tech companies are not middle class. At the very least, $500k+ salaries are above middle class. The starting salary at most top-tier companies is multiple times the median salary. I say top-tier companies, because these are the ones doing the layoff. Analysts are saying there will be, or is, a slow down in many if the types of products (data) sold by these companies. You can continue to think that $500k+ salaries are warranted because you're a force multiplier etc, but that's the same reasoning CEOs and fund mangers use. Maybe they are. But don't be surprised when hordes of average people call you out. Edit: Why disagree?
- j245 4y ago
  Hedge funds are parasites, they are an edge case in capitalism that needs to be patched. I can’t think of anything else that takes so much, while adding nothing to society.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    They provide asset management and investment opportunity. Not all hedge funds are malicious. We can also see issues in tech that are similar. Look at all the hate Meta gets for their business model - using addicting algorithms to gather and sell users' info. There can certainly be an argument made here about the potential societal damage they cause being a parasite.
    - j245 4y ago
      This is a common argument I hear, it just doesn’t hold water. We should absolutely hold Big Tech accountable for their business models and actions. On the whole though, they have released many orders of magnitude more useful things than Hedge Funds. Is there a Citadel Maps I can use ? Or a TwoSigma framework like React ? At least Big Tech has ad-powered useful services. Hedge funds gobble up PhD holders and the cream of the crop and use them to make 0.1% of the population 5% wealthier ?
carapace 4y ago
Not only that. I always bring up that big "no poaching" collusion among the big tech companies. By some estimates they managed to keep around eight billion dollars that would have gone to employees. Pando had good coverage: https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com/tag/techtopus/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com... I used to think that we didn't need unions, until that came up. It's been asked, how would unions have helped with that, and I don't know, but it seems like there's some room for improvement somehow.
- tukantje 4y ago
  Thank you, totally forgot about this one. Perhaps unions are not the end all be all, however we definitely need to follow suit like architects in my opinion. Somehow having a unified say, a way to decide on what are the standards etc. will help tremendously as far as the health of our sector goes.

arcticbull 4y ago

I think folks really lose perspective. Apple has a revenue per employee of $2,375,435 and that includes the janitorial staff. [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-employee-of-selected-tech-companies/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217489/revenue-per-emplo...

giantg2 4y ago
Seems to be a paywall. What is the profit per employee, before and after employee costs?
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Apple's gross profit margin is 40% and net is 23%. OpEx accounts for a surprisingly small amount, actually. Here's a nifty visualization. [1] [1] https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png https://i.redd.it/jg6t8xm07sn91.png
  - giantg2 4y ago
    That's nice, but I just realized something. Aren't they a tech company that isn't doing layoffs? From the stuff I'm reading, the layoffs that are happening are mostly cutting unprofitable programs, or unnecessary support staff. And in very small numbers (5% or less). At this point, I'm not sure what we're really discussing since this started out as talking about how above average tech salaries are at these top-tier companies, both in terms of the industry and in general. My only point was that I don't think unionizing would be beneficial to increasing tech salary or to preventing there layoffs. Where they would be useful is more consistent treatment of employees and adherence to their own policies.

giantg2 4y ago

"The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life." Haha, ok. Can you not clearly see your own subjective bias? Why doesn't that hedgefund manager deserve it? Many of the people working for tech companies are not middle class. At the very least, $500k+ salaries are above middle class. The starting salary at most top-tier companies is multiple times the median salary. I say top-tier companies, because these are the ones doing the layoff. Analysts are saying there will be, or is, a slow down in many if the types of products (data) sold by these companies. You can continue to think that $500k+ salaries are warranted because you're a force multiplier etc, but that's the same reasoning CEOs and fund mangers use. Maybe they are. But don't be surprised when hordes of average people call you out. Edit: Why disagree?

j245 4y ago
Hedge funds are parasites, they are an edge case in capitalism that needs to be patched. I can’t think of anything else that takes so much, while adding nothing to society.
- giantg2 4y ago
  They provide asset management and investment opportunity. Not all hedge funds are malicious. We can also see issues in tech that are similar. Look at all the hate Meta gets for their business model - using addicting algorithms to gather and sell users' info. There can certainly be an argument made here about the potential societal damage they cause being a parasite.
  - j245 4y ago
    This is a common argument I hear, it just doesn’t hold water. We should absolutely hold Big Tech accountable for their business models and actions. On the whole though, they have released many orders of magnitude more useful things than Hedge Funds. Is there a Citadel Maps I can use ? Or a TwoSigma framework like React ? At least Big Tech has ad-powered useful services. Hedge funds gobble up PhD holders and the cream of the crop and use them to make 0.1% of the population 5% wealthier ?

carapace 4y ago

Not only that. I always bring up that big "no poaching" collusion among the big tech companies. By some estimates they managed to keep around eight billion dollars that would have gone to employees. Pando had good coverage: https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com/tag/techtopus/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200304045453/https://pando.com... I used to think that we didn't need unions, until that came up. It's been asked, how would unions have helped with that, and I don't know, but it seems like there's some room for improvement somehow.

tukantje 4y ago
Thank you, totally forgot about this one. Perhaps unions are not the end all be all, however we definitely need to follow suit like architects in my opinion. Somehow having a unified say, a way to decide on what are the standards etc. will help tremendously as far as the health of our sector goes.