7 ms·

Worrying and arguing about things in the future. I wasted so much time and energy on this but as I get older I've realised there is so little of what we can ac

by thyrox 4y ago

Worrying and arguing about things in the future. I wasted so much time and energy on this but as I get older I've realised there is so little of what we can actually control vs what we think we can do. Most of the time just saying Yes and waiting for things to actually happen is so much easier. A lot of time what you worry about never happens and if it does it isn't always as bad as you make things out to be in your head. A lot of times it turns out to be actually good and it would've been a shame to avoid it. Also when you say yes to people, a lot of time the other person never actually follows through the thing you didn't want. Otoh if you would argue or say No beforehand it always has the opposite effect. I guess for most people this is common sense but I did this wrong for a large younger part of my life.

cloogshicer 4y ago
I feel this strongly, but it's very hard for me to stop worrying anyways. Any specific tips?
- spoiler 4y ago
  I would recommend therapy. It's helped me loads. Meditation can also help (but if you suspect you had a traumatic childhood, discuss meditation first with your therapist). The reason I suggest therapy is because it can be a number of reasons for the underlying anxiety. I think it's mostly a symptom of something else, rather than a standalone issue.
  - cloogshicer 4y ago
    Thanks for the suggestion!
  - solarmist 4y ago
    Therapy is great, but it can be very slow to get started because there can be a long ramp up process. There are many techniques that don't require a counselor/therapist. I highly recommend the youtube channel healthygamer_gg. There's a great community and many suggestions for well understood steps you can take on your own. Also, realizing you're not he only one feeling this way can help a TON!
    - halkony 4y ago
      I've participated in the group coaching program offered by healthygamer.gg (I like what they do) and I'd like to share my POV: For people with deep seated emotional/behavioral problems, I would strongly recommend against it. The coaches in the program aren't trained to be therapists, they're only there to facilitate discussions and prevent subgrouping. The kind of work involved with trauma and neglect is much better handled by a licensed therapist. Can't speak to individual coaching, but I imagine it's similar based on what I've asked about the coach's training. The only upside to the group coaching is it's cheap at $30 for a 90min session each week. After fixing a lot of problems in my life, I joined the program expecting to talk to other people that are 90% of the way to getting their shit together but most of the people in group had much deeper, unresolved dysfunctions that __really__ brought me down. By all means, reach out and seek companionship in hard times, but individual therapy yields much stronger results.
      - solarmist 4y ago
        Yeah, I would say I was worried about that too. I haven’t participated, but that was my sense too. Group coaching is valuable, but it needs to be the right group with everyone working on the same things. So screening is super important here. That said his videos are excellent. He really knows his stuff and can help people start down the path improvement or to resolve simpler issues, but for deep seated issues individual therapy, not coaching, is probably a better choice. Yeah, my impression is Dr. K is trying to get a lot of mal-adjusted people to start down he road to being emotionally healthy, but there’s such a pent-up need for this it's going to be a shitshow for a long time. So there's going to be a lot of toxicity coming out in those group session and if you're beyond the very beginning of your journey avoid them.
- jameal 4y ago
  You might be interested in reading The Mindful Path through Worry and Rumination by Dr. Sameet Kumar. I've read it multiple times and worked through it with many of my friends. A game changer for me. He makes a great case, backed up by scientific evidence, for a regular mindfulness practice can help with worry and rumination.
- solarmist 4y ago
  A big part of relieving worry is accepting that no matter what you do bad things do and will happen. It all comes down to being comfortable with uncertainty. There are many ways of doing this, but consciously recognizing it and labeling is as such then allowing yourself to be okay with the possibility of the bad thing happening. If it is a big worry sometimes you need to make it as specific as possible. Like getting fired. What exact steps would happen? What would your boss say specifically? And is that exact scenario likely to happen? If you're still having trouble do the above, but at the end change who its about, to a co-worker for example, then ask again is this a likely scenario. And if it is then the outcome won't be that bad. If it isn't then you also have your answer. Another is to describe the worry in detail to another person because to describe it you need to make it specific and linearize it. This is why talking it/rubber ducking out works so well. They can also point out gaps and whatnot. Usually my the time your done the worry is gone. Many friends feel like they're not actually helping here, but just listening is the help and it makes a big difference. On the flip side you may feel like you're wasting the other person’s time because at the end there's nothing to do. His is also false, most people are happy to help even if they don't know what they did. Anxiety/worry usually comes from unexamined fears which throw every possible bad result into your head. But pinning down specific stories you can eliminate many of them.
- sirmarksalot 4y ago
  People see something like this and say "wow, <basic human emotion/instinct> isn't doing anything for me, how can I get rid of it?" and it becomes a sort of self-gaslighting. You're worrying about the future because it serves a function, or has served a function in the past. Find out what it's doing for you, and figure out something else you can do instead. Or maybe come to the conclusion that it actually is helping you, and accept that part of yourself. Maybe you can acknowledge your worry, and rather than ruminating on it and letting it eat at you, you can come up with a plan to deal with the thing that's worrying you. Maybe that plan is to wait until it specifically requires your action, and give yourself permission to not worry about it for now.
redblacktree 4y ago
Here's a pithy little saying for you on the topic: "Worry is interest paid in advance on a debt you may never owe."
- thih9 4y ago
  So, insurance? What I want to say is that there is time and place for worrying. And sure, worrying about everything is counter productive.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    That's a clever way of thinking about it. I like that. Sometimes insurance is invaluable and sometimes it is worthless. But when it's the default you get the American medical system.
ThalesX 4y ago
I argue for the future so much. I hope to be able to at one point get rid of my anxiety about it. But: > Also when you say yes to people, a lot of time the other person never actually follows through the thing you didn't want. Otoh if you would argue or say No beforehand it always has the opposite effect. I recently started doing this and it's amazing. I was the one saying 'no' to so many 'offers' (as a full stack developer, from idea people), and always ended up being the negative guy that doesn't want to do things. Recently I've started enthousiastically saying "Yeah, that sounds great! In order to get started, I'd need <whatever_thing_that_they_need_to_do> from you.". Up till now no one has followed up. When we talk about it next, I am as excited as in the beginning and mentioned the thing that they need to do again, and they usually go like "Oh yeah! I need to do that." and then I never hear about it again. It's a shocker to me.
- musingsole 4y ago
  People like dreaming more than they enjoy actualization. Pulling dreams into reality is hard work and necessarily heartbreaking as reality and dreams don't match.
- ianmcgowan 4y ago
  AKA, the "Wally Reflector", https://imgur.com/Db0c9eP https://imgur.com/Db0c9eP It's really easy for people to put stuff on your to-do list, reflecting even a tiny task on them before you accept it makes so many requests go away. Related to this for me, I generally make it clear that sending an email request does not mean a task is transferred to me. We need to have a conversation and agree before it goes on my list..
  - solarmist 4y ago
    Yes. You don't even need to be unreasonable. Just a tiny clarification that requires 20 minutes of work is plenty. Yes to this too! Conscious business taught me all about the difference between reasonable and unreasonable requests how to make reasonable ones. There's more pieces than I expected.
  - halkony 4y ago
dakial1 4y ago
You should read about stoicism and the Dichotomy of control. I was pretty much very rational on things that I worry about, mainly asking myself "is this something I can do something about?" If not, I wouldn't worry about it anymore. After some years I learned how aligned I was to stoicism.
hinkley 4y ago
I used to worry about everything, now I mostly worry about stuff that has actually blown up in the last and people still prefer pain to preparedness. I do see the Illusion of Control aspect in myself and others, and it’s weird being on the other side of that now and trying to explain to people that what they want isn’t what they need and also that we can put as much effort in as we like or we can just plan to do it twice and get on with it. The latter is a problem magnified by management, who don’t want to pay for anything twice and will apply huge social pressure in service of the sunk cost fallacy.
solarmist 4y ago
You're comment threw me. I thought I was following, but discussions on the future of technology/whatever don't come with yes/no questions. Can you give an example? Like “do you want to go ice skating Saturday?” also doesn't seem to fit your comment.

by thyrox 4y ago

cloogshicer 4y ago

I feel this strongly, but it's very hard for me to stop worrying anyways. Any specific tips?

spoiler 4y ago
I would recommend therapy. It's helped me loads. Meditation can also help (but if you suspect you had a traumatic childhood, discuss meditation first with your therapist). The reason I suggest therapy is because it can be a number of reasons for the underlying anxiety. I think it's mostly a symptom of something else, rather than a standalone issue.
- cloogshicer 4y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion!
- solarmist 4y ago
  Therapy is great, but it can be very slow to get started because there can be a long ramp up process. There are many techniques that don't require a counselor/therapist. I highly recommend the youtube channel healthygamer_gg. There's a great community and many suggestions for well understood steps you can take on your own. Also, realizing you're not he only one feeling this way can help a TON!
  - halkony 4y ago
    I've participated in the group coaching program offered by healthygamer.gg (I like what they do) and I'd like to share my POV: For people with deep seated emotional/behavioral problems, I would strongly recommend against it. The coaches in the program aren't trained to be therapists, they're only there to facilitate discussions and prevent subgrouping. The kind of work involved with trauma and neglect is much better handled by a licensed therapist. Can't speak to individual coaching, but I imagine it's similar based on what I've asked about the coach's training. The only upside to the group coaching is it's cheap at $30 for a 90min session each week. After fixing a lot of problems in my life, I joined the program expecting to talk to other people that are 90% of the way to getting their shit together but most of the people in group had much deeper, unresolved dysfunctions that __really__ brought me down. By all means, reach out and seek companionship in hard times, but individual therapy yields much stronger results.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      Yeah, I would say I was worried about that too. I haven’t participated, but that was my sense too. Group coaching is valuable, but it needs to be the right group with everyone working on the same things. So screening is super important here. That said his videos are excellent. He really knows his stuff and can help people start down the path improvement or to resolve simpler issues, but for deep seated issues individual therapy, not coaching, is probably a better choice. Yeah, my impression is Dr. K is trying to get a lot of mal-adjusted people to start down he road to being emotionally healthy, but there’s such a pent-up need for this it's going to be a shitshow for a long time. So there's going to be a lot of toxicity coming out in those group session and if you're beyond the very beginning of your journey avoid them.
jameal 4y ago
You might be interested in reading The Mindful Path through Worry and Rumination by Dr. Sameet Kumar. I've read it multiple times and worked through it with many of my friends. A game changer for me. He makes a great case, backed up by scientific evidence, for a regular mindfulness practice can help with worry and rumination.
solarmist 4y ago
A big part of relieving worry is accepting that no matter what you do bad things do and will happen. It all comes down to being comfortable with uncertainty. There are many ways of doing this, but consciously recognizing it and labeling is as such then allowing yourself to be okay with the possibility of the bad thing happening. If it is a big worry sometimes you need to make it as specific as possible. Like getting fired. What exact steps would happen? What would your boss say specifically? And is that exact scenario likely to happen? If you're still having trouble do the above, but at the end change who its about, to a co-worker for example, then ask again is this a likely scenario. And if it is then the outcome won't be that bad. If it isn't then you also have your answer. Another is to describe the worry in detail to another person because to describe it you need to make it specific and linearize it. This is why talking it/rubber ducking out works so well. They can also point out gaps and whatnot. Usually my the time your done the worry is gone. Many friends feel like they're not actually helping here, but just listening is the help and it makes a big difference. On the flip side you may feel like you're wasting the other person’s time because at the end there's nothing to do. His is also false, most people are happy to help even if they don't know what they did. Anxiety/worry usually comes from unexamined fears which throw every possible bad result into your head. But pinning down specific stories you can eliminate many of them.
sirmarksalot 4y ago
People see something like this and say "wow, <basic human emotion/instinct> isn't doing anything for me, how can I get rid of it?" and it becomes a sort of self-gaslighting. You're worrying about the future because it serves a function, or has served a function in the past. Find out what it's doing for you, and figure out something else you can do instead. Or maybe come to the conclusion that it actually is helping you, and accept that part of yourself. Maybe you can acknowledge your worry, and rather than ruminating on it and letting it eat at you, you can come up with a plan to deal with the thing that's worrying you. Maybe that plan is to wait until it specifically requires your action, and give yourself permission to not worry about it for now.

redblacktree 4y ago

Here's a pithy little saying for you on the topic: "Worry is interest paid in advance on a debt you may never owe."

thih9 4y ago
So, insurance? What I want to say is that there is time and place for worrying. And sure, worrying about everything is counter productive.
- solarmist 4y ago
  That's a clever way of thinking about it. I like that. Sometimes insurance is invaluable and sometimes it is worthless. But when it's the default you get the American medical system.

ThalesX 4y ago

I argue for the future so much. I hope to be able to at one point get rid of my anxiety about it. But: > Also when you say yes to people, a lot of time the other person never actually follows through the thing you didn't want. Otoh if you would argue or say No beforehand it always has the opposite effect. I recently started doing this and it's amazing. I was the one saying 'no' to so many 'offers' (as a full stack developer, from idea people), and always ended up being the negative guy that doesn't want to do things. Recently I've started enthousiastically saying "Yeah, that sounds great! In order to get started, I'd need <whatever_thing_that_they_need_to_do> from you.". Up till now no one has followed up. When we talk about it next, I am as excited as in the beginning and mentioned the thing that they need to do again, and they usually go like "Oh yeah! I need to do that." and then I never hear about it again. It's a shocker to me.

musingsole 4y ago
People like dreaming more than they enjoy actualization. Pulling dreams into reality is hard work and necessarily heartbreaking as reality and dreams don't match.
ianmcgowan 4y ago
AKA, the "Wally Reflector", https://imgur.com/Db0c9eP https://imgur.com/Db0c9eP It's really easy for people to put stuff on your to-do list, reflecting even a tiny task on them before you accept it makes so many requests go away. Related to this for me, I generally make it clear that sending an email request does not mean a task is transferred to me. We need to have a conversation and agree before it goes on my list..
- solarmist 4y ago
  Yes. You don't even need to be unreasonable. Just a tiny clarification that requires 20 minutes of work is plenty. Yes to this too! Conscious business taught me all about the difference between reasonable and unreasonable requests how to make reasonable ones. There's more pieces than I expected.
- halkony 4y ago

dakial1 4y ago

You should read about stoicism and the Dichotomy of control. I was pretty much very rational on things that I worry about, mainly asking myself "is this something I can do something about?" If not, I wouldn't worry about it anymore. After some years I learned how aligned I was to stoicism.

hinkley 4y ago

I used to worry about everything, now I mostly worry about stuff that has actually blown up in the last and people still prefer pain to preparedness. I do see the Illusion of Control aspect in myself and others, and it’s weird being on the other side of that now and trying to explain to people that what they want isn’t what they need and also that we can put as much effort in as we like or we can just plan to do it twice and get on with it. The latter is a problem magnified by management, who don’t want to pay for anything twice and will apply huge social pressure in service of the sunk cost fallacy.

solarmist 4y ago

You're comment threw me. I thought I was following, but discussions on the future of technology/whatever don't come with yes/no questions. Can you give an example? Like “do you want to go ice skating Saturday?” also doesn't seem to fit your comment.