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My guy, the sign-up information for those schemes expressly asked customers not to switch everything off and sit in the dark [1]. For this exact reason. I've s

My guy, the sign-up information for those schemes expressly asked customers not to switch everything off and sit in the dark [1]. For this exact reason. I've seen all over the internet in the last few days posts similar to yours with doomsaying and misery which will jeopardise the success of future schemes by confusing people about the purpose of the actvity. The idea was to measure how customers could reasonably move some energy use outside of the peak hours - where gas turbine plants need to be kept on standby just to manage. With a little thought and care, perhaps boiling the kettle a bit earlier, running the dishwasher a bit later, a small difference can be made which was the purpose of the experiment. No "energy nazis" are coming to tell you to switch your lights off at 5pm. If you check grid demand history [2] you'll see that the UK is not close to needing to ration power or risk blackouts. [1] https://octopus.energy/blog/saving-sessions-energy-tips/ https://octopus.energy/blog/saving-sessions-energy-tips/ [2] https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/ or https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electricity-and-me/great-britains-monthly-electricity-stats https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electr...

mytailorisrich 4y ago
If I'm told I can make £3 per kWh saved then I turn everything off to max savings out. That's how incentives work. There is no other purpose to those schemes to me personally. They are sugar-coated to hide that the root cause is the failure of the UK energy policy over the last decades. If things were working as we should be expecting them to we would have plentiful and cheap electricity and there would be no such schemes at all.
- helsinkiandrew 4y ago
  > They are sugar-coated to hide that the root cause is the failure of the UK energy policy over the last decades No, No matter how much power is used and how many power stations any country has, power usage goes up and down, to cope with that some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand (usually the highest cost, easiest to start and/or polluting ones). What these experiments are doing is testing if its cheaper/easier to pay consumers to reduce demand than it costs to bring those power stations online. This will only get more sophisticated as dishwashers/washing machines get smart enough to do there work and and cars charge when the power is cheapest (even paying electric car owners to put a few kWh into the grid at peak early evening times)
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    > to cope with that some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand If that's the problem then it's entirely self-inflicted... It's a classic: the problem is actually in the premise and presented as a matter of fact to justify 'solutions'... > cars charge when the power is cheapest What if I told you that some countries have had off-peak pricing for decades? There is no need for anything new and high tech for that.
    - helsinkiandrew 4y ago
      That's how electric grids work all over the world. Why are you saying that's a problem? What's the alternative? If the power in doesn't match the power out there will be a black out and if there wasn't why would you produce more power than is being used? Individual wind turbines are often turned off when there's too much power going into the grid. https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/why-does-the-electricity-grid-have-to-stay-in-balance/2136/ https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/why-does-the-e...
      - mytailorisrich 4y ago
        That's not the same as your previous statement... Of course usage goes up and down. The problem you previously stated is that power plants are paid to shut down, which is not the way it has to be but rather the consequence of the chosen system of production. In any case, that's not the reason of the current "saving sessions" in the UK, as already said.
        helsinkiandrew 4y ago
        No I said: > some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand
  - cjrp 4y ago
    > cars charge when the power is cheapest Octopus encourage that on certain tariffs. Something like £0.10/kWh during the night if you schedule EV charging using their app (and linked charger).
g4d 4y ago
[2] is such a good link! Does anybody know why we send so much power to France overnight? Does that mean that France is using a lot of energy overnight, or am I misunderstanding?

mytailorisrich 4y ago

If I'm told I can make £3 per kWh saved then I turn everything off to max savings out. That's how incentives work. There is no other purpose to those schemes to me personally. They are sugar-coated to hide that the root cause is the failure of the UK energy policy over the last decades. If things were working as we should be expecting them to we would have plentiful and cheap electricity and there would be no such schemes at all.

helsinkiandrew 4y ago
> They are sugar-coated to hide that the root cause is the failure of the UK energy policy over the last decades No, No matter how much power is used and how many power stations any country has, power usage goes up and down, to cope with that some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand (usually the highest cost, easiest to start and/or polluting ones). What these experiments are doing is testing if its cheaper/easier to pay consumers to reduce demand than it costs to bring those power stations online. This will only get more sophisticated as dishwashers/washing machines get smart enough to do there work and and cars charge when the power is cheapest (even paying electric car owners to put a few kWh into the grid at peak early evening times)
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  > to cope with that some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand If that's the problem then it's entirely self-inflicted... It's a classic: the problem is actually in the premise and presented as a matter of fact to justify 'solutions'... > cars charge when the power is cheapest What if I told you that some countries have had off-peak pricing for decades? There is no need for anything new and high tech for that.
  - helsinkiandrew 4y ago
    That's how electric grids work all over the world. Why are you saying that's a problem? What's the alternative? If the power in doesn't match the power out there will be a black out and if there wasn't why would you produce more power than is being used? Individual wind turbines are often turned off when there's too much power going into the grid. https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/why-does-the-electricity-grid-have-to-stay-in-balance/2136/ https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/why-does-the-e...
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      That's not the same as your previous statement... Of course usage goes up and down. The problem you previously stated is that power plants are paid to shut down, which is not the way it has to be but rather the consequence of the chosen system of production. In any case, that's not the reason of the current "saving sessions" in the UK, as already said.
      - helsinkiandrew 4y ago
        No I said: > some power stations are paid to be be dormant but ready to come online at periods of high demand
- cjrp 4y ago
  > cars charge when the power is cheapest Octopus encourage that on certain tariffs. Something like £0.10/kWh during the night if you schedule EV charging using their app (and linked charger).

g4d 4y ago

[2] is such a good link! Does anybody know why we send so much power to France overnight? Does that mean that France is using a lot of energy overnight, or am I misunderstanding?