3 ms·

What's the use case for this? I get why it may be useful in a few situations, like you want to test code for a server running a certain distro, I suppose. But

What's the use case for this? I get why it may be useful in a few situations, like you want to test code for a server running a certain distro, I suppose. But it's not like there's exclusive software between the three, or a huge difference between them besides some pre-installed software. The immutable filesystem seems interesting, but I'm still not sure what the advantage to it is. How would you install software on a read only system?

cassianoleal 4y ago
> The immutable filesystem seems interesting, but I'm still not sure what the advantage to it is. How would you install software on a read only system? I don't know about this particular system, but generally you install software on overlay filesystems. macOS has an immutable (by default) root filesystem. The Steam Deck does that as well.
- madduci 4y ago
  I think it suits very well the Kiosk use case with UI or Digital Signage systems where updates are downloaded at each boot.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    It does. It also suits very well the use case of the personal computer and other personal devices, as exemplified with macOS and the Steam Deck. It helps keep the core system free of malware. I'm not sure about macOS but my understanding is that the Steam Deck does upgrades in a blue-green fashion so if something goes wrong, the previous, known good system is still available.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      Immutable base image also reduces chances of software that’s not malware unintentionally screwing things up or putting files in places it has no business putting them (as Adobe loves to do). macOS obviously has its desktop environment as part of the image, which makes it difficult to accidentally destroy your desktop environment, is that true of SteamOS too? Seems like it’d be smart if the immutable image at least included a minimal fallback like IceWM or something that it spins up if say the package manager loses its marbles while resolving dependencies or something and eats the stock KDE install.
dartharva 4y ago
Reducing fragmentation for Linux desktop end-users? Many developers only bother packaging their apps and software for one platform (e.g. only on a PPA or only on the AUR), which makes it hard to use on others.
dhruvdh 4y ago
There are some professional software, like AMD's ROCm that only work properly in a few officially supported Distro's. `amdgpu-install` specifically checks what distro you are on and refuses to proceed when it encounters unfamiliar OS releases. It's a headache to work around.
yellowapple 4y ago
The use case is that it's fucking cool :) More seriously: if you're writing software for Linux, this sort of thing could be a boon for packaging that software. > The immutable filesystem seems interesting, but I'm still not sure what the advantage to it is. How would you install software on a read only system? Usually it's just the root FS that's read-only; /home is usually still r/w, so applications would get installed there (or into some other FS that's r/w and not root). This approach ain't terribly new - openSUSE's MicroOS and Valve's SteamOS 3.0 are both good instances of prior art, and I'm pretty sure Android and ChromeOS work similarly - but it's cool to see this idea continue to catch on.
- 7speter 4y ago
  Maybe I’m wrong, but I kind of think that if Linux wants widespread adaption, there gas to be a one stop solution for users, instead of a distro thats ideal for ML, a distro ideal for video editing (looking at you davinci resolve), a distro for audio editing, a distro for streaming and a distro for gaming (surprisingly all distros). Maybe that involves a kernel implementation that can handle all of that (seemingly easier said than done) or a convergent distro, or flatpaks, or scripts that seeks updates im the source code…
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    At this point I'm kind of leaning toward the opposite: if it was easy to install a bunch of tiny distros alongside each other that each do one thing and do it well, I'd be down to switch over to that. Being able to fire up a dedicated "mode" for programming v. music composition/production v. general leisure (and being able to quickly switch modes without losing state) would be awesome both from an "I want to make sure the software I need runs in as optimal an environment as possible" standpoint and an "I want to be explicitly in a programming/music/leisure headspace right now and don't want distractions" standpoint. Distrobox is on my to-do list to try out and see if I can hack something together to scratch that itch. This BlendOS might be another option.
    - clericbob 4y ago

cassianoleal 4y ago

> The immutable filesystem seems interesting, but I'm still not sure what the advantage to it is. How would you install software on a read only system? I don't know about this particular system, but generally you install software on overlay filesystems. macOS has an immutable (by default) root filesystem. The Steam Deck does that as well.

madduci 4y ago
I think it suits very well the Kiosk use case with UI or Digital Signage systems where updates are downloaded at each boot.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  It does. It also suits very well the use case of the personal computer and other personal devices, as exemplified with macOS and the Steam Deck. It helps keep the core system free of malware. I'm not sure about macOS but my understanding is that the Steam Deck does upgrades in a blue-green fashion so if something goes wrong, the previous, known good system is still available.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Immutable base image also reduces chances of software that’s not malware unintentionally screwing things up or putting files in places it has no business putting them (as Adobe loves to do). macOS obviously has its desktop environment as part of the image, which makes it difficult to accidentally destroy your desktop environment, is that true of SteamOS too? Seems like it’d be smart if the immutable image at least included a minimal fallback like IceWM or something that it spins up if say the package manager loses its marbles while resolving dependencies or something and eats the stock KDE install.

dartharva 4y ago

Reducing fragmentation for Linux desktop end-users? Many developers only bother packaging their apps and software for one platform (e.g. only on a PPA or only on the AUR), which makes it hard to use on others.

dhruvdh 4y ago

There are some professional software, like AMD's ROCm that only work properly in a few officially supported Distro's. `amdgpu-install` specifically checks what distro you are on and refuses to proceed when it encounters unfamiliar OS releases. It's a headache to work around.

yellowapple 4y ago

The use case is that it's fucking cool :) More seriously: if you're writing software for Linux, this sort of thing could be a boon for packaging that software. > The immutable filesystem seems interesting, but I'm still not sure what the advantage to it is. How would you install software on a read only system? Usually it's just the root FS that's read-only; /home is usually still r/w, so applications would get installed there (or into some other FS that's r/w and not root). This approach ain't terribly new - openSUSE's MicroOS and Valve's SteamOS 3.0 are both good instances of prior art, and I'm pretty sure Android and ChromeOS work similarly - but it's cool to see this idea continue to catch on.

7speter 4y ago
Maybe I’m wrong, but I kind of think that if Linux wants widespread adaption, there gas to be a one stop solution for users, instead of a distro thats ideal for ML, a distro ideal for video editing (looking at you davinci resolve), a distro for audio editing, a distro for streaming and a distro for gaming (surprisingly all distros). Maybe that involves a kernel implementation that can handle all of that (seemingly easier said than done) or a convergent distro, or flatpaks, or scripts that seeks updates im the source code…
- yellowapple 4y ago
  At this point I'm kind of leaning toward the opposite: if it was easy to install a bunch of tiny distros alongside each other that each do one thing and do it well, I'd be down to switch over to that. Being able to fire up a dedicated "mode" for programming v. music composition/production v. general leisure (and being able to quickly switch modes without losing state) would be awesome both from an "I want to make sure the software I need runs in as optimal an environment as possible" standpoint and an "I want to be explicitly in a programming/music/leisure headspace right now and don't want distractions" standpoint. Distrobox is on my to-do list to try out and see if I can hack something together to scratch that itch. This BlendOS might be another option.
  - clericbob 4y ago