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That (among other thigns) is what business do though. I haven't directly contributed to the bottom line for $WORK for over a month, but as soon as I finish my c

by hansvm 4y ago

That (among other thigns) is what business do though. I haven't directly contributed to the bottom line for $WORK for over a month, but as soon as I finish my current project it'll have a significant positive impact. They paid me a steady salary regardless. So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine?

ceejayoz 4y ago
> So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine? No. If their business brings in $5k/month, that's what the SSA will consider their income. Doesn't matter if it's just accumulating in the business's bank accounts; it's OP's income. They've seen people try this trick; it's why the provision exists.
- hansvm 4y ago
  But if their business brings in $5k for one contract done one month and then has no work for 4 months to bring the average under $1,200, is that not above board with such a ruling? Test 3 in that legal document references that their income will be evaluated relative to what salary they might receive for such work, and I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for the business to be expected to pay more than the average value of their output.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    It doesn't average. https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-0420.htm https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-0420.htm > We generally use the amount of your countable income in the second month prior to the current month to determine how much your benefit amount will be for the current month. Earning $5k in a particular month would mean zero benefit in a subsequent month, and keeping that $5k sitting in their account to tide themselves over would put them over the $2k limit on assets, making them ineligible for SSI.
    - hansvm 4y ago
      Well that's a moldy bollocks sandwich of a law isn't it :/ Thanks for the clarification.
    - iosjunkie 4y ago
      I wonder if a 3rd party intermediary entity could be setup to collect the funds from the customer and pay out just the right amount spread over time.
      - double0jimb0 4y ago
        This is correct.
    - dev_tty01 4y ago
      If the 5k is better than the "normal" month with benefit, it is still better to earn the 5k that month, assuming the benefit is immediately restored on the subsequent months with low income.
      - bonsaibilly 4y ago
        > It takes up to a month to approve your request for reinstatement. However, this does not mean that your benefits have been completely restored. While you are receiving temporary benefits, the Social Security office is determining your eligibility to completely reinstate your benefits after the six months of temporary benefits. The Social Security office analyzes your medical condition and updates your medical information. If they decide that you are eligible to continue receiving SSI benefits, your temporary benefits become regular SSI benefits. If you are not eligible to receive benefits, your temporary benefits end. > The Social Security office may approve your request for reinstatement. If your request is approved, your temporary benefits start the month following the month in which you made your request. Temporary benefits can last up to six months. So: it’s not instant. It’s not immediate. And it risks losing the benefits altogether if they mistake a one-time contract for something he could sustain indefinitely.
        4y ago
lozenge 4y ago
Tax law is written by the rich for the rich. Benefits laws is written by the rich for the poor.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Sometimes benefits law is also written by the rich for the rich. Vanishingly few non-rich can come anywhere near maxing out tax-advantaged retirement accounts, even if they have the spare cash to do it (too much of the limit has to come from your employer), meanwhile the rich can easily structure their income to max it out (and max out their spouse's, and their kids', et c.). The most-effective use of health savings accounts is also as a stealth tax-advantaged retirement account for the rich (the trick is you put money in, pay any actual medical expenses with ordinary taxed money outside the account, then at retirement the HSA money that would have gone to those bills, but didn't, and has been invested and growing all this time, can come out tax-free as long as you—or your accountant—kept the receipts)

by hansvm 4y ago

ceejayoz 4y ago

> So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine? No. If their business brings in $5k/month, that's what the SSA will consider their income. Doesn't matter if it's just accumulating in the business's bank accounts; it's OP's income. They've seen people try this trick; it's why the provision exists.

hansvm 4y ago
But if their business brings in $5k for one contract done one month and then has no work for 4 months to bring the average under $1,200, is that not above board with such a ruling? Test 3 in that legal document references that their income will be evaluated relative to what salary they might receive for such work, and I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for the business to be expected to pay more than the average value of their output.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  It doesn't average. https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-0420.htm https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/416/416-0420.htm > We generally use the amount of your countable income in the second month prior to the current month to determine how much your benefit amount will be for the current month. Earning $5k in a particular month would mean zero benefit in a subsequent month, and keeping that $5k sitting in their account to tide themselves over would put them over the $2k limit on assets, making them ineligible for SSI.
  - hansvm 4y ago
    Well that's a moldy bollocks sandwich of a law isn't it :/ Thanks for the clarification.
  - iosjunkie 4y ago
    I wonder if a 3rd party intermediary entity could be setup to collect the funds from the customer and pay out just the right amount spread over time.
    - double0jimb0 4y ago
      This is correct.
  - dev_tty01 4y ago
    If the 5k is better than the "normal" month with benefit, it is still better to earn the 5k that month, assuming the benefit is immediately restored on the subsequent months with low income.
    - bonsaibilly 4y ago
      > It takes up to a month to approve your request for reinstatement. However, this does not mean that your benefits have been completely restored. While you are receiving temporary benefits, the Social Security office is determining your eligibility to completely reinstate your benefits after the six months of temporary benefits. The Social Security office analyzes your medical condition and updates your medical information. If they decide that you are eligible to continue receiving SSI benefits, your temporary benefits become regular SSI benefits. If you are not eligible to receive benefits, your temporary benefits end. > The Social Security office may approve your request for reinstatement. If your request is approved, your temporary benefits start the month following the month in which you made your request. Temporary benefits can last up to six months. So: it’s not instant. It’s not immediate. And it risks losing the benefits altogether if they mistake a one-time contract for something he could sustain indefinitely.
      - 4y ago

lozenge 4y ago

Tax law is written by the rich for the rich. Benefits laws is written by the rich for the poor.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Sometimes benefits law is also written by the rich for the rich. Vanishingly few non-rich can come anywhere near maxing out tax-advantaged retirement accounts, even if they have the spare cash to do it (too much of the limit has to come from your employer), meanwhile the rich can easily structure their income to max it out (and max out their spouse's, and their kids', et c.). The most-effective use of health savings accounts is also as a stealth tax-advantaged retirement account for the rich (the trick is you put money in, pay any actual medical expenses with ordinary taxed money outside the account, then at retirement the HSA money that would have gone to those bills, but didn't, and has been invested and growing all this time, can come out tax-free as long as you—or your accountant—kept the receipts)