6 ms·

For what it's worth, I used to do work on freelancing sites ~10 years ago and just tended to ignore the race to the bottom. I initially charged $50/hr, and regu

For what it's worth, I used to do work on freelancing sites ~10 years ago and just tended to ignore the race to the bottom. I initially charged $50/hr, and regularly raised my rates so that I was up over $150/hr by the time I stopped doing it. Of course I got passed over for a lot of jobs in favor of cheaper folks. But the jobs I did get were from clients who actually respected me. Also, more than once, a client who initially passed over me for someone cheaper came back a few months later and asked me to do the job after all. So, perhaps something like that could work for you. -- Regarding the $1,200 per month limit, I'm not sure what the rules are, but perhaps you could set up a corporation that takes on the freelancing jobs and then pays you a salary of $1,200 a month? That way you wouldn't have to turn down a job for paying too much. Maybe have the corp owned by a trust rather than you personally? I wouldn't want you to get in trouble and lose the disability, though, so talk to somebody who actually knows what they're talking about before doing any of this stuff.

Forge36 4y ago
Steps I'm seeing: 1. Find a lawyer 2. Consider a corporation 3. Find an external entity (friend, family, form a trust) to run business Run all plans through lawyer and revive their agreement in writing
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Run all plans through lawyer I don't think you appreciate how tight the budget of a disabled person on SSI is.
  - Forge36 4y ago
    They'll require help (Friends/family/someone). However I'm MUCH more worried about them losing SSI because "someone on the internet said this was OK". Granted I have no idea how much a lawyer costs (and last time I used one it came in <$300).
    - rnd0 4y ago
      I would be too, and going forward without legal advice is really fool-hardy. The trick imo would be finding an affordable lawyer who is also familiar with disability law.
  - jonnycomputer 4y ago
    Agreed. But, I will say that I have benefited from pro-bono work in the past, more than once actually; some--many--lawyers feel they have an obligation on that end. Once, at least, I was helped out at https://www.freeadvice.com/ https://www.freeadvice.com/, I think when I represented myself against a creditor that had seized my student aid.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> I'm not sure what the rules are, but perhaps you could set up a corporation that takes on the freelancing jobs and then pays you a salary of $1,200 a month? No, that'll lose you the benefits. https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1575.htm https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1575.htm "We will evaluate your work activity based on the value of your services to the business regardless of whether you receive an immediate income for your services." SSI is deliberately set up to fuck people over. (Not in this particular loophole-closer, but in general. You get $900/month to cover food, housing, etc.; a pittance. A savings account balance (or any other countable assets) over $2,000 will lose your benefits.)
- hansvm 4y ago
  That (among other thigns) is what business do though. I haven't directly contributed to the bottom line for $WORK for over a month, but as soon as I finish my current project it'll have a significant positive impact. They paid me a steady salary regardless. So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine? No. If their business brings in $5k/month, that's what the SSA will consider their income. Doesn't matter if it's just accumulating in the business's bank accounts; it's OP's income. They've seen people try this trick; it's why the provision exists.
    - hansvm 4y ago
      But if their business brings in $5k for one contract done one month and then has no work for 4 months to bring the average under $1,200, is that not above board with such a ruling? Test 3 in that legal document references that their income will be evaluated relative to what salary they might receive for such work, and I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for the business to be expected to pay more than the average value of their output.
vbezhenar 4y ago
I tried for months to find a job in freelance site. I ended up doing someone's home work for symbolic price ($50 or something like that), got 5 stars and that's about it. Any work with reasonable pay (few thousands of dollars for few weeks) was overflooded with offers (like 200+ offers). I wrote my offer, tried to customize it, few times I even made some small demo to show off my interest but to no success. In the end I gave up. So my opinion: if you desperately need some money, freelancing websites are not a good option. It's more about luck and determination. I guess if I would kept applying, with time I'd find more projects, more reputation and so on, but that's not quick money. Might be my country (KZ). I would expect people from US or EU having better implicit reputation. Also it was around 10 years ago, may be things changed.
- nfriedly 4y ago
  That's a fair point. I am in the US, and I'm sure that was part of what helped me get the jobs that I did get. Most of my clients were from the US, a couple were even from the same city I was in. It sounds like the OP is also in the US, so they will have that same advantage.
- ricardobayes 4y ago
  I'd encourage you to still apply for anything that's fresh, regardless of how many applicants are there. I've been in a hiring position from these sites and 99% of the proposals are fake/canned. The thing is you need to have demonstrable track record to get going on these sites. I'd say it takes about 5-10 of those "small and crappy" jobs so people can see you're for real and serious.
thathndude 4y ago
Lawyer here, but not legal advice: Look into a Special Needs Trust. You may be able to sock the money into the Trust without it becoming income to you, and thus jeopardizing your benefits. It’s usually used to keep assets low enough for benefits, but maybe there’s an income reducing benefit as well. Your state likely has multiple providers —- fees, if any, are typically quite reasonable
- dingusdew 4y ago
  One way to legally get the end-run around SSDI is to work on open source projects and accept donations. SSDI allows income from sources other than work, unlike SSI, which bars pretty much all income. SSDI allows you to get things like Financial Aid for school without impacting your SSDI. You can even trade stocks and gain money from stock sales and not have it impact your SSDI. Your spouse can have income and it won't impact SSDI. Most forms of income that are not strictly "work" are allowed by SSDI. SSI is the more strict of the two programs (and is more generally aimed at people who have been lifetime disabled and never worked or paid into social security). Open source development + accepting donations seems like a sweet spot for the disabled on SSDI. You're not accepting pay for the "work" you do, thus the donation income is legally acceptable. OP doesn't specify whether they are on SSI or SSDI, but if they had worked for years before they were disabled, its likely they were able to get SSDI.
  - ska 4y ago
    Do you know many people who are doing this with > 1000 per month average donations?
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  It bugs me that almost all the people I know that have gotten on disability have come from upper-class families, frequently the parents are part of the "business class" and work with lawyers on a regular basis. Conversely I've known many people who come from lower class or middle class families that have hit hard times who are seriously mental ill (e.g. addicted to cigarettes but so thought disordered that it takes three hours to smoke a cig after waking up.) It strikes me as unfair that somebody who is "lawyered up" can find loopholes to protect their income whereas for many disabled people the process of applying for disability is like going to the moon or becoming a Navy Seal.

Forge36 4y ago

Steps I'm seeing: 1. Find a lawyer 2. Consider a corporation 3. Find an external entity (friend, family, form a trust) to run business Run all plans through lawyer and revive their agreement in writing

ceejayoz 4y ago
> Run all plans through lawyer I don't think you appreciate how tight the budget of a disabled person on SSI is.
- Forge36 4y ago
  They'll require help (Friends/family/someone). However I'm MUCH more worried about them losing SSI because "someone on the internet said this was OK". Granted I have no idea how much a lawyer costs (and last time I used one it came in <$300).
  - rnd0 4y ago
    I would be too, and going forward without legal advice is really fool-hardy. The trick imo would be finding an affordable lawyer who is also familiar with disability law.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Agreed. But, I will say that I have benefited from pro-bono work in the past, more than once actually; some--many--lawyers feel they have an obligation on that end. Once, at least, I was helped out at https://www.freeadvice.com/ https://www.freeadvice.com/, I think when I represented myself against a creditor that had seized my student aid.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> I'm not sure what the rules are, but perhaps you could set up a corporation that takes on the freelancing jobs and then pays you a salary of $1,200 a month? No, that'll lose you the benefits. https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1575.htm https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1575.htm "We will evaluate your work activity based on the value of your services to the business regardless of whether you receive an immediate income for your services." SSI is deliberately set up to fuck people over. (Not in this particular loophole-closer, but in general. You get $900/month to cover food, housing, etc.; a pittance. A savings account balance (or any other countable assets) over $2,000 will lose your benefits.)

hansvm 4y ago
That (among other thigns) is what business do though. I haven't directly contributed to the bottom line for $WORK for over a month, but as soon as I finish my current project it'll have a significant positive impact. They paid me a steady salary regardless. So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > So long as OP keeps their average contribution under $1,200/mo won't they be fine? No. If their business brings in $5k/month, that's what the SSA will consider their income. Doesn't matter if it's just accumulating in the business's bank accounts; it's OP's income. They've seen people try this trick; it's why the provision exists.
  - hansvm 4y ago
    But if their business brings in $5k for one contract done one month and then has no work for 4 months to bring the average under $1,200, is that not above board with such a ruling? Test 3 in that legal document references that their income will be evaluated relative to what salary they might receive for such work, and I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for the business to be expected to pay more than the average value of their output.

vbezhenar 4y ago

I tried for months to find a job in freelance site. I ended up doing someone's home work for symbolic price ($50 or something like that), got 5 stars and that's about it. Any work with reasonable pay (few thousands of dollars for few weeks) was overflooded with offers (like 200+ offers). I wrote my offer, tried to customize it, few times I even made some small demo to show off my interest but to no success. In the end I gave up. So my opinion: if you desperately need some money, freelancing websites are not a good option. It's more about luck and determination. I guess if I would kept applying, with time I'd find more projects, more reputation and so on, but that's not quick money. Might be my country (KZ). I would expect people from US or EU having better implicit reputation. Also it was around 10 years ago, may be things changed.

nfriedly 4y ago
That's a fair point. I am in the US, and I'm sure that was part of what helped me get the jobs that I did get. Most of my clients were from the US, a couple were even from the same city I was in. It sounds like the OP is also in the US, so they will have that same advantage.
ricardobayes 4y ago
I'd encourage you to still apply for anything that's fresh, regardless of how many applicants are there. I've been in a hiring position from these sites and 99% of the proposals are fake/canned. The thing is you need to have demonstrable track record to get going on these sites. I'd say it takes about 5-10 of those "small and crappy" jobs so people can see you're for real and serious.

thathndude 4y ago

Lawyer here, but not legal advice: Look into a Special Needs Trust. You may be able to sock the money into the Trust without it becoming income to you, and thus jeopardizing your benefits. It’s usually used to keep assets low enough for benefits, but maybe there’s an income reducing benefit as well. Your state likely has multiple providers —- fees, if any, are typically quite reasonable

dingusdew 4y ago
One way to legally get the end-run around SSDI is to work on open source projects and accept donations. SSDI allows income from sources other than work, unlike SSI, which bars pretty much all income. SSDI allows you to get things like Financial Aid for school without impacting your SSDI. You can even trade stocks and gain money from stock sales and not have it impact your SSDI. Your spouse can have income and it won't impact SSDI. Most forms of income that are not strictly "work" are allowed by SSDI. SSI is the more strict of the two programs (and is more generally aimed at people who have been lifetime disabled and never worked or paid into social security). Open source development + accepting donations seems like a sweet spot for the disabled on SSDI. You're not accepting pay for the "work" you do, thus the donation income is legally acceptable. OP doesn't specify whether they are on SSI or SSDI, but if they had worked for years before they were disabled, its likely they were able to get SSDI.
- ska 4y ago
  Do you know many people who are doing this with > 1000 per month average donations?
PaulHoule 4y ago
It bugs me that almost all the people I know that have gotten on disability have come from upper-class families, frequently the parents are part of the "business class" and work with lawyers on a regular basis. Conversely I've known many people who come from lower class or middle class families that have hit hard times who are seriously mental ill (e.g. addicted to cigarettes but so thought disordered that it takes three hours to smoke a cig after waking up.) It strikes me as unfair that somebody who is "lawyered up" can find loopholes to protect their income whereas for many disabled people the process of applying for disability is like going to the moon or becoming a Navy Seal.