3 ms·

The story structure that Dan shows is a distilled version of Joseph Campbell's Hero's journey. A more get it done version. Mind you, this isn't something that

The story structure that Dan shows is a distilled version of Joseph Campbell's Hero's journey. A more get it done version. Mind you, this isn't something that you have to follow. It's something that appears whenever you're telling a story. It's like gravity it's there even if you don't believe in it. ~source: https://youtu.be/SndbyN4u0j4 https://youtu.be/SndbyN4u0j4

tsimionescu 4y ago
It's really not - it's something that appears if you want to follow the basic structure of most folk tales, that's it. The vast majority of stories diverge significantly from the Hero's Journey model, unless you deeply contrive to cast them as that. There are plenty of examples in this thread, but to take a wide category, mystery novels almost never follow this structure. Just look at any of Agatha Christie's Poirot novels (some of the most read pieces of literature in history!) and see how badly they fit. And this is not some kind of new phenomenon. Even something like Dante's Divine Comedy doesn't fit this, or even the Iliad.
- teamonkey 4y ago
  The Divine Comedy is an archetypal Hero's Journey. Dante literally (literarily?) crosses the threshold, meets a guide (Virgil), jouneys to the depths of hell, meets the goddess (Beatrice), all the while struggling with the sins he's committed and the events of his life; in the end finding resolve.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    The Divine Comedy begins with our hero in a place of great discomfort and fear. Then, he is taken on a journey where he is shown Hell, Purgatory, and at the end Heaven. Along the way, he only observes these places and is moved by them, but he never has to struggle or adapt, he only learns and understands. He pays no price for the journey, and in the end he sees God, is marveled by the beauty, and that's it - so no return. One could argue that the first-person style narrative implies a return to the world of the audience; on the other hand, since it is the metaphorical journey of a swimmer's soul to God, there is really no form of return. So, out of the original Hero's Journey model, this only matches the call to adventure, the threshold, and perhaps the challenges and the transformation. Looking at Campbell's precise steps there is even less match with all his original steps.
    - teamonkey 4y ago
      > he never has to struggle or adapt, he only learns and understands Learning and understanding is the struggle. Dante is tormented by a number of fears and doubts and he doesn't know how to deal with them. His journey into hell and heaven highlight aspects of these and helps him come to terms with them, one by one. The book ends with him having resolved that struggle, he could only see the face of god after reaching clarity. There are a lot of ways you can interpret the book, but it's fundamentally a quest to find inner peace.
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        Sure, I can take that argument. But I still don't see any argument that makes the story run in a circle, any way to argue he returns at the end to where he begun, but changed, with some new insight.
      - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        By this logic any reaction to any challenging events is equivalent to overcoming in a story structure. I think this fits into stretching the original framework into meaninglessness.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

tsimionescu 4y ago

It's really not - it's something that appears if you want to follow the basic structure of most folk tales, that's it. The vast majority of stories diverge significantly from the Hero's Journey model, unless you deeply contrive to cast them as that. There are plenty of examples in this thread, but to take a wide category, mystery novels almost never follow this structure. Just look at any of Agatha Christie's Poirot novels (some of the most read pieces of literature in history!) and see how badly they fit. And this is not some kind of new phenomenon. Even something like Dante's Divine Comedy doesn't fit this, or even the Iliad.

teamonkey 4y ago
The Divine Comedy is an archetypal Hero's Journey. Dante literally (literarily?) crosses the threshold, meets a guide (Virgil), jouneys to the depths of hell, meets the goddess (Beatrice), all the while struggling with the sins he's committed and the events of his life; in the end finding resolve.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  The Divine Comedy begins with our hero in a place of great discomfort and fear. Then, he is taken on a journey where he is shown Hell, Purgatory, and at the end Heaven. Along the way, he only observes these places and is moved by them, but he never has to struggle or adapt, he only learns and understands. He pays no price for the journey, and in the end he sees God, is marveled by the beauty, and that's it - so no return. One could argue that the first-person style narrative implies a return to the world of the audience; on the other hand, since it is the metaphorical journey of a swimmer's soul to God, there is really no form of return. So, out of the original Hero's Journey model, this only matches the call to adventure, the threshold, and perhaps the challenges and the transformation. Looking at Campbell's precise steps there is even less match with all his original steps.
  - teamonkey 4y ago
    > he never has to struggle or adapt, he only learns and understands Learning and understanding is the struggle. Dante is tormented by a number of fears and doubts and he doesn't know how to deal with them. His journey into hell and heaven highlight aspects of these and helps him come to terms with them, one by one. The book ends with him having resolved that struggle, he could only see the face of god after reaching clarity. There are a lot of ways you can interpret the book, but it's fundamentally a quest to find inner peace.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Sure, I can take that argument. But I still don't see any argument that makes the story run in a circle, any way to argue he returns at the end to where he begun, but changed, with some new insight.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      By this logic any reaction to any challenging events is equivalent to overcoming in a story structure. I think this fits into stretching the original framework into meaninglessness.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]