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The ugly truth is — false sexual harassment complaint is one those things in life you keep hoping and praying it never happens to you. But if it does you’re scr

The ugly truth is — false sexual harassment complaint is one those things in life you keep hoping and praying it never happens to you. But if it does you’re screwed one way or the other. The stigma that it “automatically” brings just doesn’t go away. It just doesn’t. You forever become “that” person. And I really don’t know how it can be fixed. That’s just how it is.

HideousKojima 4y ago
The Billy Graham/Mike Pence rule is your best bet: don't let yourself be in any situation where a false accusation could arise. Of course you'll be accused of being a sexist/misogynist/whatever instead but that's easier to ignore or overcome than false accusations of sexual harassment.
- bt4u 4y ago
  [dead]
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Hard disagree. If I decide I can have a closed-door 1:1 or a lunch 1:1 with some of my direct reports but not with any that are female, I’m inherently discriminating against them. I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a <1% chance of a false accusation than to treat employees unequally and cut that chance in half.
  - bratbag 4y ago
    At what percentage risk would you change your mind on that?
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Not sure. Probably 5% or so, at which point I’d pass on a leadership role rather than discriminating against some employees.
  - undersuit 4y ago
    "Odd that sokoloff only has private lunches with the new kid that just graduated." You're not saving yourself from any false accusations. The people you have closed door sessions can accuse you of SA regardless if you're attracted to them.
  - raspberry1337 4y ago
    >I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a <1% chance of a false accusation It's a lot larger than 1%< depending on how long your career is and how many individuals you encounter over its course.
    - therealdrag0 4y ago
      Huh? You think 1/100 people who make it to retirement have had a false sexual claim made against them publicly?
  - cb504 4y ago
    I had a Professor in college who refused to meet with me behind a a close door, and we were both male. He kindly explained that he picked this up from a former professor of his. He wanted zero possibility of a student accusing him of sexual misconduct. At the time I thought it was a bit strange, but I agreed and left the door open. 20 years later, it doesn't sound so strange anymore.
    - ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 4y ago
      Everyone knows you can’t sexually assault someone if the door is open good rule of thumb though
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > Everyone knows you can’t sexually assault someone if the door is open good rule of thumb though It means that it's far less likely that you could do so unobserved, which makes it harder to explain away the lack of observations for a false claim. Also, it sends a message that might be a deterrent to a false claim.
        tsss 4y ago
        In the end, no amount of evidence will save you when they have it out for you because you're a man. There is the famous case of the German train conductor Ralf Witte and his friend, who were both falsely accused of rape by the friend's daughter. They were falsely imprisoned for a combined 10 years before the ridiculous verdict was overturned, even though the daughter was a known liar, frequently submitted contradicting testimony and they had alibi for several of the dates where the supposed rape took place. Among other things, the daughter claimed that Mr. Witte took her virginity, then later claimed that she had been enslaved in a human trafficking ring years earlier, directly contradicting her earlier statements. Any evidence not fitting the story that the judge and DA wanted to hear were simply explained away as the victim "misremembering".
  - marvin 4y ago
    That’s game theory for you. It pushes the world to shitty equilibriums like this one.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
    [dead]
  - yowzadave 4y ago
    Would it be a viable solution to always have a third party present, whether your direct report is male or female?
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      It's one of the "possible, but not really viable" solutions I think. I'm probably not going to coordinate schedules in order to have a chaperone present for all of my meetings, not going to cancel meetings when the chaperone is sick/on PTO, not going to take the chaperone on all of my business trips, and probably not going to discuss confidential business topics (upcoming mergers, divestitures, or budget problems brought on by carrying 1/4 of our headcount as chaperones in the company, etc).
    - mc32 4y ago
      Most of these places have seccams every so many feet from each other. Team rooms could have them w/o audio so people can feel at ease to express themselves while also having a silent witness in the event of any physical aspects of the meeting were to come up --obvs there are some limits as most have a def retention of 30 days.
  - giardini 4y ago
    Don't close the door. Had so many problems in one office that they re-architected it so every office had (at least) a large window. Complaints of hanky-panky dropped to zero.
unglaublich 4y ago
There's an impressive movie about such a situation: "The Hunt" (2012).
- bradlys 4y ago
  This movie alone is the number one reason I will never work or be alone with children that aren’t my own.

HideousKojima 4y ago

The Billy Graham/Mike Pence rule is your best bet: don't let yourself be in any situation where a false accusation could arise. Of course you'll be accused of being a sexist/misogynist/whatever instead but that's easier to ignore or overcome than false accusations of sexual harassment.

bt4u 4y ago
[dead]
sokoloff 4y ago
Hard disagree. If I decide I can have a closed-door 1:1 or a lunch 1:1 with some of my direct reports but not with any that are female, I’m inherently discriminating against them. I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a <1% chance of a false accusation than to treat employees unequally and cut that chance in half.
- bratbag 4y ago
  At what percentage risk would you change your mind on that?
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Not sure. Probably 5% or so, at which point I’d pass on a leadership role rather than discriminating against some employees.
- undersuit 4y ago
  "Odd that sokoloff only has private lunches with the new kid that just graduated." You're not saving yourself from any false accusations. The people you have closed door sessions can accuse you of SA regardless if you're attracted to them.
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  >I’d way rather treat all employees fairly and fade a <1% chance of a false accusation It's a lot larger than 1%< depending on how long your career is and how many individuals you encounter over its course.
  - therealdrag0 4y ago
    Huh? You think 1/100 people who make it to retirement have had a false sexual claim made against them publicly?
- cb504 4y ago
  I had a Professor in college who refused to meet with me behind a a close door, and we were both male. He kindly explained that he picked this up from a former professor of his. He wanted zero possibility of a student accusing him of sexual misconduct. At the time I thought it was a bit strange, but I agreed and left the door open. 20 years later, it doesn't sound so strange anymore.
  - ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 4y ago
    Everyone knows you can’t sexually assault someone if the door is open good rule of thumb though
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Everyone knows you can’t sexually assault someone if the door is open good rule of thumb though It means that it's far less likely that you could do so unobserved, which makes it harder to explain away the lack of observations for a false claim. Also, it sends a message that might be a deterrent to a false claim.
      - tsss 4y ago
        In the end, no amount of evidence will save you when they have it out for you because you're a man. There is the famous case of the German train conductor Ralf Witte and his friend, who were both falsely accused of rape by the friend's daughter. They were falsely imprisoned for a combined 10 years before the ridiculous verdict was overturned, even though the daughter was a known liar, frequently submitted contradicting testimony and they had alibi for several of the dates where the supposed rape took place. Among other things, the daughter claimed that Mr. Witte took her virginity, then later claimed that she had been enslaved in a human trafficking ring years earlier, directly contradicting her earlier statements. Any evidence not fitting the story that the judge and DA wanted to hear were simply explained away as the victim "misremembering".
- marvin 4y ago
  That’s game theory for you. It pushes the world to shitty equilibriums like this one.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Slava_Propanei 4y ago
  [dead]
- yowzadave 4y ago
  Would it be a viable solution to always have a third party present, whether your direct report is male or female?
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    It's one of the "possible, but not really viable" solutions I think. I'm probably not going to coordinate schedules in order to have a chaperone present for all of my meetings, not going to cancel meetings when the chaperone is sick/on PTO, not going to take the chaperone on all of my business trips, and probably not going to discuss confidential business topics (upcoming mergers, divestitures, or budget problems brought on by carrying 1/4 of our headcount as chaperones in the company, etc).
  - mc32 4y ago
    Most of these places have seccams every so many feet from each other. Team rooms could have them w/o audio so people can feel at ease to express themselves while also having a silent witness in the event of any physical aspects of the meeting were to come up --obvs there are some limits as most have a def retention of 30 days.
- giardini 4y ago
  Don't close the door. Had so many problems in one office that they re-architected it so every office had (at least) a large window. Complaints of hanky-panky dropped to zero.

unglaublich 4y ago

There's an impressive movie about such a situation: "The Hunt" (2012).

bradlys 4y ago
This movie alone is the number one reason I will never work or be alone with children that aren’t my own.