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Every tech journalist moans about Macs lacking touch screens, but I really hope it never happens. Touch interfaces and desktop interfaces are fundamentally diff

by roxgib 4y ago

Every tech journalist moans about Macs lacking touch screens, but I really hope it never happens. Touch interfaces and desktop interfaces are fundamentally different and having both just forces a lot of compromise. But it seems like Apple gets that and is just unifying the experience a bit rather than paving the way for touch screen MacBooks, at least I hope.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
While I agree with your point, and have never had any use for the touch screen on my work laptops and don't miss it now that I don't have it, some colleagues love it. They do many manual things, comparing lists and whatnot (yeah, I know) and they absolutely love being able to directly click things, or scrolling the contents on one side without moving the mouse pointer from the other. I think the point is that this opens new avenues of interaction with the machine. Of course, there is the risk that things would get overly adapted to touch interactions (even more white space, giant buttons, etc), which I'd hate.
CharlieDigital 4y ago
My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially when we are looking at something together - the touch screen makes more sense as an interface. Gestures on the screen also tend to be 1:1 so there's more precision for these types of gestures.
- roxgib 4y ago
  For scrolling I've always found a trackpad to be equal, if not better, than a touch screen. They feel nicer and are quicker and more accurate. Obviously not as versatile as a touchscreen though. I'd ben fine with it if it didn't otherwise interfere with the desktop experience, but I can't believe that'll be how it plays out.
- BuckyBeaver 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - CharlieDigital 4y ago
    Because there's more precision and we are sitting together making the sharing of the touchpad more awkward then sharing the screen as an interface. It's pretty simple. I also have two kids under 12 and their first reaction to any screen is to use it as an interface and look confused when it doesn't work :D (I use an MBP myself and do find the desire to have a touch interface like her Surface)
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    It sounds like you haven't had that interface. I haven't had a touch screen in nearly 6 years (since my Surface Pro 2 died its final death), and I'm not going to lie, every now and then I still reach up with my ring finger to flick the screen while mashing a function key when doing step debugging.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    It's actually quite ergonomic if you have the laptop in your lap. Using the touchpad is more awkward. This is basically what I use the touchscreen on my Thinkpad for.
    - thfuran 4y ago
      But working with a laptop in your lap is just about the opposite of ergonomic.
      - Koshkin 4y ago
        No, it would be opposite if it was someone else’s lap.
      - wkat4242 4y ago
        True but I don't necessarily "work" like that. Generally it's just reading something quickly, and then the touchscreen is really handy. It's really something that is useful in a small percentage of cases but really helpful in those. I wouldn't want to miss it. Lenovo even does matte touchscreens so there is no disadvantage (I hate glossy screens so Apple isn't an option for me either way). Usually glossy is the tradeoff you make for a touchscreen, but not in this case.
- yakubin 4y ago
  For scrolling nothing beats PageUp, PageDown, Home and End.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
schwartzworld 4y ago
I had a Chromebook with a touch screen for years and I found it to be a nice feature, particularly for my small kids for whom the mouse was an additional layer of difficulty. I could see how touch screens would benefit those with a11y issues. We already know mouse control is an issue for many.
WillAdams 4y ago
I wish that tech journalists would also take Apple to task for so limiting access to styluses. Currently using a Wacom One w/ my MacBook 13" as a 3rd display (in addition to a 4K 27") and the stylus is quite nice (bonus that it's the same as for my phone (Galaxy Note 10+) and e-book reader (Kindle Scribe) and it's quite nice to be able to draw/annotate at will --- missing Calligrapher, née Rosetta, which was the handwriting recognition from the Newton MessagePad. Apple is just going to look ever more out-of-synch as touch becomes ubiquitous, and less innovative as designs such as Lenovo's dual-screen Yogabook 9i reach the market. Once upon a time, the Compaq TC-1000 was described as a product which Apple would make -- what could Apple do in this design space? Is forcing the user to have a second device for touch, and then not allowing touch to function fully when using Sidecar a valid approach in the marketplace? If Apple would do a dual-screen device like to the Yogabook 9i which supported the Apple Pencil, and made an iPhone which did as well, I'd sell all of my current devices (except for the Kindle Scribe) and buy in to it.
Tagbert 4y ago
There is no hard requirement to redesign the whole UI around touch on a laptop. Touch will never be the only or even primary interaction mode on a laptop. It is an alternate mode suitable for some interactions and as a way to “take a break” from the repetitive movements of keyboard/trackpad/mouse. If you observer people who use a touch-enabled laptop, they will dynamically switch interaction modes depending on the situation. Scrolling the screen, pressing a button, dragging an element, zooming are all actions that lend themselves to touch. It is not an either/or choice. That is why fears of “gorilla arm” are overblown. I also find that switching modes can be a relief when the keyboard or trackpad/mouse gets tiring. It helps to switch up movements to avoid repetitive stress.
princevegeta89 4y ago
I disagree that touch laptop screens are useless. They come in very handy whenever I'm browsing internet and looking and navigating content. Touching objects and performing gestures on the screen is much faster than having to move cursor around with TouchPad and click things.
taskforcegemini 4y ago
+1 my thinkpad (t25) has a touchscreen, of which I am occasionally reminded of by accidentally brushing the screen with a hand. Really have no use for it and don't want to be touching a screen in the first place. It's like putting fingers on your glasses.

by roxgib 4y ago

vladvasiliu 4y ago

While I agree with your point, and have never had any use for the touch screen on my work laptops and don't miss it now that I don't have it, some colleagues love it. They do many manual things, comparing lists and whatnot (yeah, I know) and they absolutely love being able to directly click things, or scrolling the contents on one side without moving the mouse pointer from the other. I think the point is that this opens new avenues of interaction with the machine. Of course, there is the risk that things would get overly adapted to touch interactions (even more white space, giant buttons, etc), which I'd hate.

CharlieDigital 4y ago

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially when we are looking at something together - the touch screen makes more sense as an interface. Gestures on the screen also tend to be 1:1 so there's more precision for these types of gestures.

roxgib 4y ago
For scrolling I've always found a trackpad to be equal, if not better, than a touch screen. They feel nicer and are quicker and more accurate. Obviously not as versatile as a touchscreen though. I'd ben fine with it if it didn't otherwise interfere with the desktop experience, but I can't believe that'll be how it plays out.
BuckyBeaver 4y ago
[flagged]
- CharlieDigital 4y ago
  Because there's more precision and we are sitting together making the sharing of the touchpad more awkward then sharing the screen as an interface. It's pretty simple. I also have two kids under 12 and their first reaction to any screen is to use it as an interface and look confused when it doesn't work :D (I use an MBP myself and do find the desire to have a touch interface like her Surface)
- withinboredom 4y ago
  It sounds like you haven't had that interface. I haven't had a touch screen in nearly 6 years (since my Surface Pro 2 died its final death), and I'm not going to lie, every now and then I still reach up with my ring finger to flick the screen while mashing a function key when doing step debugging.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  It's actually quite ergonomic if you have the laptop in your lap. Using the touchpad is more awkward. This is basically what I use the touchscreen on my Thinkpad for.
  - thfuran 4y ago
    But working with a laptop in your lap is just about the opposite of ergonomic.
    - Koshkin 4y ago
      No, it would be opposite if it was someone else’s lap.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      True but I don't necessarily "work" like that. Generally it's just reading something quickly, and then the touchscreen is really handy. It's really something that is useful in a small percentage of cases but really helpful in those. I wouldn't want to miss it. Lenovo even does matte touchscreens so there is no disadvantage (I hate glossy screens so Apple isn't an option for me either way). Usually glossy is the tradeoff you make for a touchscreen, but not in this case.
yakubin 4y ago
For scrolling nothing beats PageUp, PageDown, Home and End.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

schwartzworld 4y ago

I had a Chromebook with a touch screen for years and I found it to be a nice feature, particularly for my small kids for whom the mouse was an additional layer of difficulty. I could see how touch screens would benefit those with a11y issues. We already know mouse control is an issue for many.

WillAdams 4y ago

I wish that tech journalists would also take Apple to task for so limiting access to styluses. Currently using a Wacom One w/ my MacBook 13" as a 3rd display (in addition to a 4K 27") and the stylus is quite nice (bonus that it's the same as for my phone (Galaxy Note 10+) and e-book reader (Kindle Scribe) and it's quite nice to be able to draw/annotate at will --- missing Calligrapher, née Rosetta, which was the handwriting recognition from the Newton MessagePad. Apple is just going to look ever more out-of-synch as touch becomes ubiquitous, and less innovative as designs such as Lenovo's dual-screen Yogabook 9i reach the market. Once upon a time, the Compaq TC-1000 was described as a product which Apple would make -- what could Apple do in this design space? Is forcing the user to have a second device for touch, and then not allowing touch to function fully when using Sidecar a valid approach in the marketplace? If Apple would do a dual-screen device like to the Yogabook 9i which supported the Apple Pencil, and made an iPhone which did as well, I'd sell all of my current devices (except for the Kindle Scribe) and buy in to it.

Tagbert 4y ago

There is no hard requirement to redesign the whole UI around touch on a laptop. Touch will never be the only or even primary interaction mode on a laptop. It is an alternate mode suitable for some interactions and as a way to “take a break” from the repetitive movements of keyboard/trackpad/mouse. If you observer people who use a touch-enabled laptop, they will dynamically switch interaction modes depending on the situation. Scrolling the screen, pressing a button, dragging an element, zooming are all actions that lend themselves to touch. It is not an either/or choice. That is why fears of “gorilla arm” are overblown. I also find that switching modes can be a relief when the keyboard or trackpad/mouse gets tiring. It helps to switch up movements to avoid repetitive stress.

princevegeta89 4y ago

I disagree that touch laptop screens are useless. They come in very handy whenever I'm browsing internet and looking and navigating content. Touching objects and performing gestures on the screen is much faster than having to move cursor around with TouchPad and click things.

taskforcegemini 4y ago

+1 my thinkpad (t25) has a touchscreen, of which I am occasionally reminded of by accidentally brushing the screen with a hand. Really have no use for it and don't want to be touching a screen in the first place. It's like putting fingers on your glasses.