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This specific comment is so annoying >Olohan said he reported the issue to Google’s human resources department the following week, but nothing ever came of the

This specific comment is so annoying >Olohan said he reported the issue to Google’s human resources department the following week, but nothing ever came of the complaint. The HR rep “openly admitted … that if the complaint was ‘in reverse’ — a female accusing a white male of harassment — the complaint would certainly be escalated,” according to the lawsuit.

Overtonwindow 4y ago
That's kind of the way of things in America. I have the feeling that a large segment of the population believes that a woman is incapable of sexually harassing, a man, and I think this totally inaccurate belief has permeated throughout culture and into workplaces.
- alephnan 4y ago
  > That's kind of the way of things in America I’m not so sure it’s America vs Google. One has to wonder how inclusive and diverse the HR department is
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- 0xcafefood 4y ago
  I'd guess there are not that many people who truly believe that a woman cannot harass or abuse someone sexually (I'm sure there are some but they must be a fringe). But there are very many who would say so if pressed on the subject, especially at work.
- Slothrop99 4y ago
  When I was a young guy way back when, I was sexually harassed at my first two office jobs by women managers. One of them framed it as "payback". Not fun to be on the receiving end of this!
- Spivak 4y ago
  This isn’t surprising. For pretty much all of history and continues today in some places sexual assault and rape were by definition something only men could do. The FBI in 2012 finally updated their definition to recognize that men can be rape victims. We still dismiss teenage boys being raped by adult women as, “I bet he liked it.” This belief hasn’t permeated our culture, it is the rock on which the very idea of what sexual crimes are [1]. The cultural shift is the other direction thanks to people fighting for it but we’re a long way from the end of the tunnel. [1] Which is damage to property of a husband or father sooo that’s uhh something. The laws changed on paper but the spirit lived on.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  Women and girls are by far disproportionately the victims of sexual harassment and assault, but that just highlights how much of this women and girls have to deal with. It still leaves a bunch of room for men and boys to get some sexual harassment and assault.
  - kbelder 4y ago
    I'm not sure it's as disproportionate as you seem. It may be like physical abuse in a relationship; roughly even between sexes, but reported and documented cases are vastly lopsided by gender.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      On the lower end of harassment there is no way catcalling is roughly even between the sexes. In particular venues it might be roughly even, but in the world at large, no way. On the more violent end of rape the majority of serial rapists I've heard about are men. And while some of them are homosexual rapists, most are heterosexual rapists.
wengo314 4y ago
that is because HR exists to protect the company, not the employee. it would be a big media storm if that aforementioned reverse thing happened.
- selcuka 4y ago
  This doesn't explain why this one wasn't escalated as it has become a media storm as well.
  - bathtub365 4y ago
    HR exists to protect the company, but they still have to be good at their jobs.
    - Slothrop99 4y ago
      True. And HR is not necessarily this intelligent diabolical force "protecting the company". They are often the biggest source of company gossip! If they see you on their level, they'll say all kinds of stuff. They probably assumed this manager would have some sense and stop getting drunk and touching abs, and then went into ass-covering mode when she went on the warpath. When you have a division between salary and wage workers, HR has a certain role. Between managers, its all politics.
  - za3faran 4y ago
    You can bet they didn't think it would.
    - justinjlynn 4y ago
      A systematic and impartial third party review of Google's HR incident and report system's records and/or HR incident related communications records would likely indicate just how much they did, or did not, think it would be an issue.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  > that is because HR exists to protect the company, not the employee I kind of get annoyed when this statement is bandied about. Not because it's false, but because it's brought up in cases like this one where if HR were actually doing their job well, they would have protected the company by doing a real investigation. That is, one of the primary purposes of HR is "keep the company from getting sued." But, in many cases, that goal aligns with someone who has a valid, verifiable complaint. For example, if you are being sexually harassed and want it to stop, a good HR team will absolutely do their best to make that happen, because if they don't they are opening the company up to huge liability. Not saying everything is always 100% cut and dry (particularly when the accused is somewhere very high up and the company thinks it would cause great disruption to fire them), but reading through the details on this case, that doesn't really appear to be true. I'm certainly not making a judgement since we've only read one side of the story, but I do push back strongly against the idea that HR didn't intervene because they wanted to protect the company.
Barrin92 4y ago
tbh I'm not even sure that's true given Google's history with what high ranking execs got away with regardless of their gender. They settled a shareholder lawsuit for an entire series of mishandled sexual misconduct cases barely two years ago.
mshake2 4y ago
I was groped by an gay (and well-liked) coworker at a company retreat. I told my boss a few weeks later at a 1-on-1 lunch and he just made a face and then awkwardly changed the subject. Most people are cowards and avoid unpopular actions at all costs so that they can keep their power. Virtue is all an act for power.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  And as a gay man myself I've been groped by female colleagues before, had them come up and stand behind me and rub my shoulders/squeeze my back completely unwanted and I've done n o t h i n g about it, because nothing can be done about it. That's the sad truth. Can't go to anyone and even if I did, they likely won't believe me, whereas she could retaliate and say I was the one that did the touching and she'd be believed with ludicrous immediacy. Life sucks, man.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    I've done n o t h i n g about it Did you ask them not to do it again?
Mordisquitos 4y ago
Honestly, that's the allegation that I find hardest to believe at face value (the close second being "Olohan was told that he had shown favouritism towards high-performing employees"). While I have no difficulty in believing that, in practice, a similar complaint with reversed genders would be taken more seriously in some|many|most|all (?) HR departments, I cannot believe that any HR rep would openly admit to that fact, let alone to an affected party. It may indeed have happened, but such extreme clumsiness on the part of Google's HR beggars belief.

Overtonwindow 4y ago

That's kind of the way of things in America. I have the feeling that a large segment of the population believes that a woman is incapable of sexually harassing, a man, and I think this totally inaccurate belief has permeated throughout culture and into workplaces.

alephnan 4y ago
> That's kind of the way of things in America I’m not so sure it’s America vs Google. One has to wonder how inclusive and diverse the HR department is
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
0xcafefood 4y ago
I'd guess there are not that many people who truly believe that a woman cannot harass or abuse someone sexually (I'm sure there are some but they must be a fringe). But there are very many who would say so if pressed on the subject, especially at work.
Slothrop99 4y ago
When I was a young guy way back when, I was sexually harassed at my first two office jobs by women managers. One of them framed it as "payback". Not fun to be on the receiving end of this!
Spivak 4y ago
This isn’t surprising. For pretty much all of history and continues today in some places sexual assault and rape were by definition something only men could do. The FBI in 2012 finally updated their definition to recognize that men can be rape victims. We still dismiss teenage boys being raped by adult women as, “I bet he liked it.” This belief hasn’t permeated our culture, it is the rock on which the very idea of what sexual crimes are [1]. The cultural shift is the other direction thanks to people fighting for it but we’re a long way from the end of the tunnel. [1] Which is damage to property of a husband or father sooo that’s uhh something. The laws changed on paper but the spirit lived on.
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
Women and girls are by far disproportionately the victims of sexual harassment and assault, but that just highlights how much of this women and girls have to deal with. It still leaves a bunch of room for men and boys to get some sexual harassment and assault.
- kbelder 4y ago
  I'm not sure it's as disproportionate as you seem. It may be like physical abuse in a relationship; roughly even between sexes, but reported and documented cases are vastly lopsided by gender.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    On the lower end of harassment there is no way catcalling is roughly even between the sexes. In particular venues it might be roughly even, but in the world at large, no way. On the more violent end of rape the majority of serial rapists I've heard about are men. And while some of them are homosexual rapists, most are heterosexual rapists.

wengo314 4y ago

that is because HR exists to protect the company, not the employee. it would be a big media storm if that aforementioned reverse thing happened.

selcuka 4y ago
This doesn't explain why this one wasn't escalated as it has become a media storm as well.
- bathtub365 4y ago
  HR exists to protect the company, but they still have to be good at their jobs.
  - Slothrop99 4y ago
    True. And HR is not necessarily this intelligent diabolical force "protecting the company". They are often the biggest source of company gossip! If they see you on their level, they'll say all kinds of stuff. They probably assumed this manager would have some sense and stop getting drunk and touching abs, and then went into ass-covering mode when she went on the warpath. When you have a division between salary and wage workers, HR has a certain role. Between managers, its all politics.
- za3faran 4y ago
  You can bet they didn't think it would.
  - justinjlynn 4y ago
    A systematic and impartial third party review of Google's HR incident and report system's records and/or HR incident related communications records would likely indicate just how much they did, or did not, think it would be an issue.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> that is because HR exists to protect the company, not the employee I kind of get annoyed when this statement is bandied about. Not because it's false, but because it's brought up in cases like this one where if HR were actually doing their job well, they would have protected the company by doing a real investigation. That is, one of the primary purposes of HR is "keep the company from getting sued." But, in many cases, that goal aligns with someone who has a valid, verifiable complaint. For example, if you are being sexually harassed and want it to stop, a good HR team will absolutely do their best to make that happen, because if they don't they are opening the company up to huge liability. Not saying everything is always 100% cut and dry (particularly when the accused is somewhere very high up and the company thinks it would cause great disruption to fire them), but reading through the details on this case, that doesn't really appear to be true. I'm certainly not making a judgement since we've only read one side of the story, but I do push back strongly against the idea that HR didn't intervene because they wanted to protect the company.

Barrin92 4y ago

tbh I'm not even sure that's true given Google's history with what high ranking execs got away with regardless of their gender. They settled a shareholder lawsuit for an entire series of mishandled sexual misconduct cases barely two years ago.

mshake2 4y ago

I was groped by an gay (and well-liked) coworker at a company retreat. I told my boss a few weeks later at a 1-on-1 lunch and he just made a face and then awkwardly changed the subject. Most people are cowards and avoid unpopular actions at all costs so that they can keep their power. Virtue is all an act for power.

fennecfoxy 4y ago
And as a gay man myself I've been groped by female colleagues before, had them come up and stand behind me and rub my shoulders/squeeze my back completely unwanted and I've done n o t h i n g about it, because nothing can be done about it. That's the sad truth. Can't go to anyone and even if I did, they likely won't believe me, whereas she could retaliate and say I was the one that did the touching and she'd be believed with ludicrous immediacy. Life sucks, man.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  I've done n o t h i n g about it Did you ask them not to do it again?

Mordisquitos 4y ago

Honestly, that's the allegation that I find hardest to believe at face value (the close second being "Olohan was told that he had shown favouritism towards high-performing employees"). While I have no difficulty in believing that, in practice, a similar complaint with reversed genders would be taken more seriously in some|many|most|all (?) HR departments, I cannot believe that any HR rep would openly admit to that fact, let alone to an affected party. It may indeed have happened, but such extreme clumsiness on the part of Google's HR beggars belief.