5 ms·

Wouldn’t be the first time a self-pleasuring tool was widely regarded as a wondrous medical device … there was one that treated a catch—all disease called “hyst

by EGreg 4y ago

Wouldn’t be the first time a self-pleasuring tool was widely regarded as a wondrous medical device … there was one that treated a catch—all disease called “hysteria” in the other half of the human population: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-vibrator/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-vibrator/ Let’s not forget the kids before puberty. Today’s “hysteria” is alive and well — it’s called ADHD and it involves overdiagnosing rambunctiousness and prescribing amphetamines like Ritalin or Aderall to medicate the “problem” away instead of making the kind of changes to the school system that Finland made. A lot of societies have often chosen to use medical interventions on the individual instead of fixing the underlying problems. In the case of ADHD: 1) both parents work to afford the rent and “self-actualize” themselves 10 hours a day at corporations https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286 https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286 2) they stick their kids in public schools where administrators treat them as a number and they have to sit down and shut up for long periods 3) many kids (especially boys) have too much energy to just sit still for so long but the system needs to teach them how to be good corporate drones (even though by the time they graduate corps won’t need them to wirk that way due to AI) 4) climbing trees and running around creates liabilities in the US, keeping the kids docile keeps them out of trouble https://www.smartparenting.com.ph/parenting/big-kids/the-simple-reason-why-finnish-schools-are-one-of-the-best-in-the-world-a1162-20160525 https://www.smartparenting.com.ph/parenting/big-kids/the-sim... ADHD is today’s hysteria.

istjohn 4y ago
Spoken like someone who doesn't know anyone who has ADHD, e.g., someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Also, your little rant is completely off topic.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Spoken like someone who would have said the same about hysteria for hundreds of years. (And would have been considered very wrong given what we know today). Societal factors upstream matter a great deal, and medical inteventions downstream are usually revealed to be a bandaid. According to the CDC, roughly 9.5% of children in the USA have been diagnosed with ADHD, whereas research based in Europe shows that between 3.5% and 5.6% of children in France have been diagnosed with ADHD. Why do you think that is? There has to be a non-medical explanation, don’t you think? Same goes with the massive rise in diabetes and obesity in the USA, they engineer high fructose corn syrup into many things, people eat lots of things that turn into sugars, insulin resistance is high, but funny that so little of the industry discusses prevention of diabetes and obesity, they simply treat it as a fait accompli — including in kids, once again a new phenomenon. (In fact it has been shown to have a lot of comorbidities with coronavirus complications — but one is a national emergency, the other is not). I have seen the same kind of reponses on HN when it came to depression and skepticism that SSRIs are the solution. Until all the studies came out last year, any skepticism was met with “you have no idea what real clinical depression is like. It is primarily caused by a chemical imbalance, needs medical intervention and you know nothing! So please don’t participate in the conversation, let the dominant ideology be the only acceptable one.” https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/202207/depression-is-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain?amp https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2022... Don’t get me wrong — there are real medical cases in kids of ADHD, gender dysphoria, etc. Or depression in adults, or genetically based insultin resistance. But the fact that it is diagnosed now way more than before means that maybe - just maybe - societal and dietary factors play a huge role. This has to deal with human happiness after all. And that includes people on HN. Whether self-pleasuring with a hand, or with a vibrating device, the societal factors (of hookup culture, or of cost of rent in cities to own your own place and delay marriage, or everyone getting married later because women now want to focus on their career, while gender age gaps remain similar) matter and should be systematically explored. This article or the nofap movement or women's tacit use of vibrating devices, are all quiet ways to cope with many societal structural changes. The fact that you think it is off-topic to discuss major societal issues upstream of a phenomenon just goes to show how myopic our culture's approach is to these issues.
  - bobobob420 4y ago
    As someone who suffers a lot from "lack of ability to focus" and fits the nail on the head for adhd diagnosis, I appreciate your passion on this topic a lot. I recently came to the realization a lot of my failures in my life are from adhd. From doing my own research I decided that I do not have a medical condition and do not need to get a diagnosis to get medication. Certain tasks in this modern world are very hard for people like me but that does not mean I have a "neurodevelopmental disorder" I am who I am and have strengths and weaknesses. I genuinely believe my 'adhd' is a blessing because there are certain things I am exceptional at that other people are not yet things that many people can do well and easily I struggle a lot with. Every day is painful, it has been a hard journey but I can see the brightness at the end of the tunnel getting brighter and brighter as I mature and learn to use my strengths more effectively. :)
    - adhd1110101 4y ago
      My friend it's a false dichotomy: you can keep your talents and maybe ease your struggle too. Most stimulant medication is something you can try for a day, see immediately if it's effective or not, then never take again in your life if it isn't for you. Don't suffer needlessly because of misguided bigots like the one above.
      - bobobob420 4y ago
        I have tried ritalin, vyanse, and adderall in college before. Those drugs scare me because they are in my opinion the greatest drugs in the world. When I am on them I literally become the movie limitless in real life. I feel more amazing than ever and I want to take them all the time. I would like to solve my issues without becoming reliant on medication. It feels like a patch rather than a solution. Lately I have been trying meditation. If it cures my 'adhd' I will let you know
        EGreg 4y ago
        I am not a doctor, but can I suggest a non-medical intervention that probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but may help? Under capitalism, the social networks compete for your attention, by sending you notifications. It's a "tragedy of the commons" where the commons is human attention: if Facebook doesn't get you to click during dinner, then Twitter will, and then it'll grow through those tactics. Thus the market forces these corporations to give you addictive newsfeeds, tell you when someone replied to your comment, etc. There are analyses comparing the brain to pavlov's dogs and the addiction to a slot machine. In China, internet addiction is classed as a disease but it's also studied from a social point of view, not just prescribing mediation right away. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1868102621993134 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/18681026219931... Here is what I would recommend: 1) Realize you are NOT alone or atypical. The human attention span has declined because of the system we live in. We now have shorter attention spans than goldfish. https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/ https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/ 2) Notice how much of your ADHD is connected to anxiety and investigate the causes of that anxiety, maybe with a psychotherapist or other counsellor. Map out what kind of things you are afraid could happen if you don't react to them quickly. See if you can rearrange your life to diminish the need for quick responses (such as Slack or real-time chats). Consider worst-case scenarios and if you also have OCD, consider ERP therapy. 3) Learn to use "Focus" on your phone, to turn off distractions for long periods of "Flow". Set expectations with people (this may be hard if you work in capitalism for an employer) to schedule times to talk to you, and only allow calls for emergencies from friends and family. It will take you AT LEAST A WEEK after you remove your anxiety of missing something important, to start fully relaxing and not expecting a notification to jump out at you. 4) Watch the movie "the social dilemma" and try out its recommendations (taking 1 day a week off from all electronics completely -- live how people have lived throughout history) and spend it socializing with people, eating dinner, reading a book, etc. 5) Look at your sleep, diet, are you taking walks or exercising? What is your job? Anyway, there is so much you can investigate holistically and take control in your life, before you ever have to consider that ritalin is your only hope. (And if you do want to try a nootropic, you can try modafinil perhaps... it's not an amphetamine... but again, I think medications take away our agency and should be tried only if all else fails) None of that requires medication, so try that first.
novok 4y ago
[flagged]
- n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - adhd1110101 4y ago
    Your position is both medically disproved and demeaning. Correct it please before you do more harm. I made it to middle age without any ADHD diagnosis or stimulants, including coffee. My symptoms were present from early childhood and remain to this day, I expect I'll carry them to my grave. The entire time it's been an agonizing struggle, in ways I learned over decades were not normal compared to my friends and family. I avoided diagnosis and medication due in part to stigma perpetuated by attitudes like yours. I suffered in silence for years that could have been avoided if only my condition were better understood and supported. When I finally got a professional diagnosis, the stimulant didn't make me high the way it would do for you, it just made my brain act more like your brain on a normal day. My stresses and struggles became simply normal challenges, with the smothering layer of ADHD failings on top removed. So at least in my adult experience, properly dosed stimulant medication given to people who need it can be life-alteringly effective, as close to a cure as a neurodivergent brain thinking today can hope for.
    - n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 4y ago
        Yikes! You can't break the site guidelines like you did in this thread, regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. I know other commenters in this thread were also breaking the site guidelines, but you went way beyond them. You've unfortunately been doing this in other places too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417049 These are unquestionably bannable offenses on HN. I'm not going to ban you because you've also posted good comments and it doesn't look like we've warned you before. But if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on—that means making your substantive points thoughtfully and respectfully, and using HN for curious conversation, not battle—we'd be grateful.

by EGreg 4y ago

istjohn 4y ago

Spoken like someone who doesn't know anyone who has ADHD, e.g., someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Also, your little rant is completely off topic.

EGreg 4y ago
Spoken like someone who would have said the same about hysteria for hundreds of years. (And would have been considered very wrong given what we know today). Societal factors upstream matter a great deal, and medical inteventions downstream are usually revealed to be a bandaid. According to the CDC, roughly 9.5% of children in the USA have been diagnosed with ADHD, whereas research based in Europe shows that between 3.5% and 5.6% of children in France have been diagnosed with ADHD. Why do you think that is? There has to be a non-medical explanation, don’t you think? Same goes with the massive rise in diabetes and obesity in the USA, they engineer high fructose corn syrup into many things, people eat lots of things that turn into sugars, insulin resistance is high, but funny that so little of the industry discusses prevention of diabetes and obesity, they simply treat it as a fait accompli — including in kids, once again a new phenomenon. (In fact it has been shown to have a lot of comorbidities with coronavirus complications — but one is a national emergency, the other is not). I have seen the same kind of reponses on HN when it came to depression and skepticism that SSRIs are the solution. Until all the studies came out last year, any skepticism was met with “you have no idea what real clinical depression is like. It is primarily caused by a chemical imbalance, needs medical intervention and you know nothing! So please don’t participate in the conversation, let the dominant ideology be the only acceptable one.” https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/202207/depression-is-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain?amp https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2022... Don’t get me wrong — there are real medical cases in kids of ADHD, gender dysphoria, etc. Or depression in adults, or genetically based insultin resistance. But the fact that it is diagnosed now way more than before means that maybe - just maybe - societal and dietary factors play a huge role. This has to deal with human happiness after all. And that includes people on HN. Whether self-pleasuring with a hand, or with a vibrating device, the societal factors (of hookup culture, or of cost of rent in cities to own your own place and delay marriage, or everyone getting married later because women now want to focus on their career, while gender age gaps remain similar) matter and should be systematically explored. This article or the nofap movement or women's tacit use of vibrating devices, are all quiet ways to cope with many societal structural changes. The fact that you think it is off-topic to discuss major societal issues upstream of a phenomenon just goes to show how myopic our culture's approach is to these issues.
- bobobob420 4y ago
  As someone who suffers a lot from "lack of ability to focus" and fits the nail on the head for adhd diagnosis, I appreciate your passion on this topic a lot. I recently came to the realization a lot of my failures in my life are from adhd. From doing my own research I decided that I do not have a medical condition and do not need to get a diagnosis to get medication. Certain tasks in this modern world are very hard for people like me but that does not mean I have a "neurodevelopmental disorder" I am who I am and have strengths and weaknesses. I genuinely believe my 'adhd' is a blessing because there are certain things I am exceptional at that other people are not yet things that many people can do well and easily I struggle a lot with. Every day is painful, it has been a hard journey but I can see the brightness at the end of the tunnel getting brighter and brighter as I mature and learn to use my strengths more effectively. :)
  - adhd1110101 4y ago
    My friend it's a false dichotomy: you can keep your talents and maybe ease your struggle too. Most stimulant medication is something you can try for a day, see immediately if it's effective or not, then never take again in your life if it isn't for you. Don't suffer needlessly because of misguided bigots like the one above.
    - bobobob420 4y ago
      I have tried ritalin, vyanse, and adderall in college before. Those drugs scare me because they are in my opinion the greatest drugs in the world. When I am on them I literally become the movie limitless in real life. I feel more amazing than ever and I want to take them all the time. I would like to solve my issues without becoming reliant on medication. It feels like a patch rather than a solution. Lately I have been trying meditation. If it cures my 'adhd' I will let you know
      - EGreg 4y ago
        I am not a doctor, but can I suggest a non-medical intervention that probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but may help? Under capitalism, the social networks compete for your attention, by sending you notifications. It's a "tragedy of the commons" where the commons is human attention: if Facebook doesn't get you to click during dinner, then Twitter will, and then it'll grow through those tactics. Thus the market forces these corporations to give you addictive newsfeeds, tell you when someone replied to your comment, etc. There are analyses comparing the brain to pavlov's dogs and the addiction to a slot machine. In China, internet addiction is classed as a disease but it's also studied from a social point of view, not just prescribing mediation right away. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1868102621993134 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/18681026219931... Here is what I would recommend: 1) Realize you are NOT alone or atypical. The human attention span has declined because of the system we live in. We now have shorter attention spans than goldfish. https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/ https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/ 2) Notice how much of your ADHD is connected to anxiety and investigate the causes of that anxiety, maybe with a psychotherapist or other counsellor. Map out what kind of things you are afraid could happen if you don't react to them quickly. See if you can rearrange your life to diminish the need for quick responses (such as Slack or real-time chats). Consider worst-case scenarios and if you also have OCD, consider ERP therapy. 3) Learn to use "Focus" on your phone, to turn off distractions for long periods of "Flow". Set expectations with people (this may be hard if you work in capitalism for an employer) to schedule times to talk to you, and only allow calls for emergencies from friends and family. It will take you AT LEAST A WEEK after you remove your anxiety of missing something important, to start fully relaxing and not expecting a notification to jump out at you. 4) Watch the movie "the social dilemma" and try out its recommendations (taking 1 day a week off from all electronics completely -- live how people have lived throughout history) and spend it socializing with people, eating dinner, reading a book, etc. 5) Look at your sleep, diet, are you taking walks or exercising? What is your job? Anyway, there is so much you can investigate holistically and take control in your life, before you ever have to consider that ritalin is your only hope. (And if you do want to try a nootropic, you can try modafinil perhaps... it's not an amphetamine... but again, I think medications take away our agency and should be tried only if all else fails) None of that requires medication, so try that first.

novok 4y ago

[flagged]

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- adhd1110101 4y ago
  Your position is both medically disproved and demeaning. Correct it please before you do more harm. I made it to middle age without any ADHD diagnosis or stimulants, including coffee. My symptoms were present from early childhood and remain to this day, I expect I'll carry them to my grave. The entire time it's been an agonizing struggle, in ways I learned over decades were not normal compared to my friends and family. I avoided diagnosis and medication due in part to stigma perpetuated by attitudes like yours. I suffered in silence for years that could have been avoided if only my condition were better understood and supported. When I finally got a professional diagnosis, the stimulant didn't make me high the way it would do for you, it just made my brain act more like your brain on a normal day. My stresses and struggles became simply normal challenges, with the smothering layer of ADHD failings on top removed. So at least in my adult experience, properly dosed stimulant medication given to people who need it can be life-alteringly effective, as close to a cure as a neurodivergent brain thinking today can hope for.
  - n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      Yikes! You can't break the site guidelines like you did in this thread, regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. I know other commenters in this thread were also breaking the site guidelines, but you went way beyond them. You've unfortunately been doing this in other places too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34417049 These are unquestionably bannable offenses on HN. I'm not going to ban you because you've also posted good comments and it doesn't look like we've warned you before. But if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on—that means making your substantive points thoughtfully and respectfully, and using HN for curious conversation, not battle—we'd be grateful.